I will not let die Basic4GL.

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D.J.Peters
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I will not let die Basic4GL.

Postby D.J.Peters » Dec 05, 2011 19:28

I will not let die Basic4GL
and working on a new version which is then also support Linux.

Basic4GL desperately needs my support.

I will do not so much with FreeBASIC in near future.

The FreeBASIC community has enough people that play in my league. :lol:

Joshy
marcov
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Postby marcov » Dec 05, 2011 19:46

The Curse of Basic fragmentation strikes again :-)
aurelVZAB
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Postby aurelVZAB » Dec 05, 2011 22:12

Did you not already involved with GFA Basic which looks very dead?
I don't get it what you have from all this ....
roook_ph
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Postby roook_ph » Dec 16, 2011 12:09

There is no interest on basic for windows lately because android and java has more lucrative market. I too was trying out eclipse right now.
Kot
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Postby Kot » Dec 16, 2011 14:54

marcov wrote:The Curse of Basic fragmentation strikes again :-)

This is the main problem of the FreeBasic community - there are many really good programmers, but they are mainly individuals, not co-workers. They can create compilers, inerpreters, but they build their on own instead join the FB developers.
Mihail_B
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Postby Mihail_B » Dec 16, 2011 15:13

Kot wrote:
marcov wrote:The Curse of Basic fragmentation strikes again :-)

This is the main problem of the FreeBasic community - there are many really good programmers, but they are mainly individuals, not co-workers. They can create compilers, inerpreters, but they build their on own instead join the FB developers.


Create a company, give us jobs, pay us $$$ ... and we are on ! :D
marcov
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Postby marcov » Dec 16, 2011 16:46

Mihail_B wrote:Create a company, give us jobs, pay us $$$ ... and we are on ! :D


That is a different discussion.
TJF
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Postby TJF » Dec 16, 2011 18:29

Kot wrote:This is the main problem of the FreeBasic community - there are many really good programmers, but they are mainly individuals, not co-workers. They can create compilers, inerpreters, but they build their on own instead join the FB developers.

Co-workers don't co-work by default. Somebody has to manage a project, define the aims and milestones, invite the workers to participate, provide a website to collect inputs, coordinate the tasks and check/bundle the results. ATM we don't have such a manager and we don't have a place for the projects (website - best-placed on freebasic.net). But if somebody will be elected to this position and he can create the webspace for a project, I'm sure we'll get further.
D.J.Peters
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Joined: May 28, 2005 3:28

Postby D.J.Peters » Dec 16, 2011 18:34

Basic4GL is a special kind of BASIC
and the best i know for beginners
(without any background of coding)

The first step are:

How to create an OpenGL window.

The OpenGL window in FB is simple and not resizeable
(good for QBASIC emulation but not modern)

GLUT are C and Callbacks are the key (nothing for beginners)
same for SDL GWL ...

Engines like OGRE, Irrlicht and friends are C++ (and to complex for absolute beginners)

If you click "RUN" in Basic4GL you will have an OpenGL window without one line of code.
(a dream for beginners)

next topic:

How you create and load a texture?
you must include libs for PNG,JPG,TGA ... and read the docs
(is that what a beginner like ?)

It's so simple In Basic4GL:
MyTexture = LoadTex(jpg,png,bmp)

What are the names of all this OpenGL commands ?
The color of commands you type let show you is an OpenGL command or not.
(cool for beginners i think)

How to create an vector or a matrix as beginner ?
in Basic4G:
a = vec2(x,y):b = vec3(x,y,z):c = vec4(x,y,z,1)
a=MatrixIdentity():b=MatrixScale():c=MatrixRotateX() ...

How to multiply a vector with a matrix:
vector=matrix*vector

same for the propertiece of Light and Material
diffuse = vec4(r,g,b,1)
lightpos = vec3(x,y,z)
...

How to load and play a sound as beginner ?
sound=LoadSound(file)
PlaySound(sound)

How to use the network as beginner ?
a=NewConnection (host or ip , port)
WriteString(a,"hello server")

WriteByte(),WriteWord(),WriteFloat(),WriteString()
ReadByte(),ReadWord(),ReadFloat(),ReadString()

From my point of view Basic4GL is the right tool for beginners
you can get your first "working" results in a very short time
(you can't crash it, never)

If something go's wrong
you can run it again step by step with the debuger
and see what's going wrong

I'm not a beginner but i like to use shaders and physics
without to include any libs.

Of course a beginner can start in 2D too
Basic4GL has a really cool sprite engine with parallax scrolling, maps, camera and mutch more.

Basic4GL is a good starting point and some of the beginners
are so motivated and learn C++, Java, FreeBASIC or what ever later.
(and use OGRE, Irlicht, Bullet, ODE, PhysX and friends)

what a nice happy end :-)

Joshy
(again sorry about my bad english)
roook_ph
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Postby roook_ph » Dec 16, 2011 19:53

I think the weak point of basic4gl is that it is opengl and it is a windows only compiler . If you can get it running on linux maybe there would be interest.
marcov
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Postby marcov » Dec 16, 2011 20:03

Kot wrote:
marcov wrote:The Curse of Basic fragmentation strikes again :-)

This is the main problem of the FreeBasic community - there are many really good programmers, but they are mainly individuals, not co-workers. They can create compilers, inerpreters, but they build their on own instead join the FB developers.


You can blame those individuals, but one could also blame the FB project.

Somehow it is not interesting. Either due to the community, the developers or the project goals.

There is a strange duality in FB, where the newbies are told FB is friendly and easy and supports QB syntax, while all code on the forum look like basicified C.
angros47
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Joined: Jun 21, 2005 19:04

Postby angros47 » Dec 16, 2011 20:50

@D.J.Peters: As far as I recall, you once made an include file that allowed to compile a basic4gl program into freebasic. (it was before Basic4GL have the sprite library)

A thing I'd love to see is compatibility between basic4gl and freebasic: so, a newbie could learn basic in basic4gl (that's more user friendly), and then compile his code with FB (that's faster).

A nice feature would be a separate library for sprite features, to be used in FreeBasic, too.

Also, I wonder how hard would be to port OpenB3D in Basic4GL...
BasicCoder2
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Postby BasicCoder2 » Dec 16, 2011 22:08

marcov wrote:There is a strange duality in FB, where the newbies are told FB is friendly and easy and supports QB syntax, while all code on the forum look like basicified C.


It is the basicified C that I like about FreeBasic as it is easier to read and write than the old Basic code I find on the internet. I never warmed to the curly brackets of C and find Basic code blocks easier to see and read.
D.J.Peters
Posts: 7911
Joined: May 28, 2005 3:28

Postby D.J.Peters » Dec 16, 2011 22:23

angros47 wrote:@D.J.Peters: As far as I recall, you once made an include file that allowed to compile a basic4gl program into freebasic.
You mean the OpenGL stencil shadow demo i posted here ?
In this case it has nothing to do with the sprite engine of Basic4GL.
angros47 wrote: (it was before Basic4GL have the sprite library)
There was a version of Basic4GL without the sprite engine?
Thats new for me.
angros47 wrote:... so, a newbie could learn basic in basic4gl ... and then compile his code with FB (that's faster).
The new version of Basic4GL i'm working on becomes a real compiler too.
First and primary targets are Windows and Linux may be Mac in future too.
angros47 wrote:A nice feature would be a separate library for sprite features, to be used in FreeBasic, too.
I'm sure some one can port the sprite engine to FreeBASIC.(looks easy for me)
The old version of Basic4GL is in C++ and open source on sourceforge.net
angros47 wrote:Also, I wonder how hard would be to port OpenB3D in Basic4GL.
The problem is if i put OGRE, Irrlicht or OpenB3D in Basic4GL why should a beginner learn OpenGL ;-)

by the way

Since a week I use PureBasic 4.60 too.
It's for Windows, Linux, MacOS X and the old Amiga
I payed 79 € = 104 US$ and it's ok for all what you get.

7 compilers yes 7
2 x Windows (32 and 64bit), 2 x Linux (32 and 64bit), 2 x Mac (Intel and PowerPC) 1 x Amiga
Source code is portable between AmigaOS, Windows, MacOS X and Linux
but you can break the portability with inline assembler :lol:

All future updates are for free (since 2000)

If anyone will try it out there are for all platforms a free demo version aviable.
http://purebasic.com/download.php

bla bla bla :-)

Joshy
Coolman
Posts: 211
Joined: Nov 05, 2010 15:09

Postby Coolman » Dec 17, 2011 14:24

True, PureBasic is a great language, I have been used for years on windows, and under this system I had no problem, nothing to say but the linux version has many bugs, the editor is very unstable and often crashes Linux is unusable, the problem is that I am interested more and more a linux and for me a language that does not work on Windows and Linux (and MacOS can be ) has no interest, that's why I stopped using PureBasic, advances FreeBasic are steadily rising, too bad many developers highly skilled in this forum have fun reinventing the wheel permanently ...

my opinion is that the basic language must evolve to a translation of the basic syntax to c using the excellent open source gcc compiler and can be preserving the possibility for developers to insert assembly code if they wish the ultimate aim is that the generated code facillement adaptable to other platforms (arm, mips, powerpc ...).

Sorry for my English translation made ​​by Google ...

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