Operating System

General discussion for topics related to the FreeBASIC project or its community.
yetifoot
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Post by yetifoot »

over the years i have worked on quite a few hobbyist OS's / Shells , and the main place they always seem to fall down is hardware support. the people who can write these types of code seem to be the hardest to find.

one very nice project i've seen recently is the ReactOS project which aims to provide compatibilty with Win32 Apps.
that's something me and shadowwolf are trying to do -though we create a fake-os, where apps are more like scripts compiled to p-code ( bytecode ) and apps executed by virtual machine/enviroment
have you got anything public on this? ive been doing VM stuff for a while (just in a hobbyist capacity) and would be interested to see others ideas.
spiner
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Post by spiner »

yetifoot wrote:over the years i have worked on quite a few hobbyist OS's / Shells , and the main place they always seem to fall down is hardware support. the people who can write these types of code seem to be the hardest to find.
I agree with you but if you're going to write an operating environment/advanced shell you can rely on the underlying operating system for low-level HW support.
Of course writing applications for the operating environment should be done using OS system calls (i.e. not using cmd("rm foo") but using file handling system calls and so on).

If someone could be really interested we could try to define some system specs.

Ad maiora.
/Spiner
VonGodric
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Post by VonGodric »

yetifoot wrote:have you got anything public on this? ive been doing VM stuff for a while (just in a hobbyist capacity) and would be interested to see others ideas.
No it's pretty much in planning state. We don't have anything to showoff yet.

However what we plan will be pretty powerful :P Ability to run many "programs" and threads, share data between ( probably some buit in shared "database like thingy" ) tasks. Dynamic library support. Well we'll see :P
Chronos
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Post by Chronos »

spiner wrote: Of course writing applications for the operating environment should be done using OS system calls (i.e. not using cmd("rm foo") but using file handling system calls and so on).
Actually, the small amount of work I've done doesn't use any of the "Run Command" functions (Shell, etc.)--I'm using the QB/FB equivilents (KILL filename$, RMDIR dirname$, MKDIR dirname$, etc.) On the topic of making an OS, this is something that really interests me. I've alwaysthought it'd be fun to make an OS, even if I'm the only person using it. The only problem is, I don't know the slightest thing about how they work, which is why I'm looking at the OSRC link D.J.Peters pointed me to. Though coding an OS is an entirely different matter altogether... :P
VonGodric
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Post by VonGodric »

Chronos - would you be interested in making a fake-os that internally "functions" as "real" os? You sure could help us...
spiner
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Post by spiner »

Chronos wrote:
spiner wrote: Of course writing applications for the operating environment should be done using OS system calls (i.e. not using cmd("rm foo") but using file handling system calls and so on).
Actually, the small amount of work I've done doesn't use any of the "Run Command" functions (Shell, etc.)--I'm using the QB/FB equivilents (KILL filename$, RMDIR dirname$, MKDIR dirname$, etc.) On the topic of making an OS, this is something that really interests me. I've alwaysthought it'd be fun to make an OS, even if I'm the only person using it. The only problem is, I don't know the slightest thing about how they work, which is why I'm looking at the OSRC link D.J.Peters pointed me to. Though coding an OS is an entirely different matter altogether... :P
Well, actually I've been involved in OS development since 6 years right now, even with long time-gaps, and it is not an easy task.
That's why I think it could be more effective to realize an "application level" operating environment.
Anyway if you want to know something more about OS Dev have a look at the following links (you can find them on my homepage too together with something more):

http://www.osdever.net/
http://my.execpc.com/~geezer/osd/index.htm
http://www.openbg.net/sto/os/
http://www.osdev.org/
http://my.execpc.com/~geezer/johnfine/
http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/sigops/roll_your_own/
http://www.500mhz.net/
http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/oskit/
Nodtveidt
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Post by Nodtveidt »

yetifoot wrote:one very nice project i've seen recently is the ReactOS project which aims to provide compatibilty with Win32 Apps.
I offered my assistance to the ReactOS project, offering to help with API implementation and possibly writing supplement applications (such as a proper shell, multimedia applications, and disk maintenance tools), but they pretty much told me that they didn't need any help, so I said #%$@ and didn't bother trying to convince them otherwise. I guess only the ultra-elite are allowed to help...
MystikShadows
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Post by MystikShadows »

Guess it wears it's name well...makes people react alright LOL ReactOS ;-)
Nodtveidt
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Post by Nodtveidt »

The only available Explorer-like application that's available for ReactOS is a sad, sad piece of ... well, you get the idea. I've got plenty of experience in writing file managers but oh well...guess they don't want MY help...here's hoping someone who doesn't suck manages to write one for the project. :D
yetifoot
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Post by yetifoot »

Code: Select all

the only available Explorer-like application that's available for ReactOS is a sad, sad piece of ... 
yeah some of it is a bit poor, but the fact in runs existing programs is my favourite thing about it. most win32 Explorer-like programs should work ok. A43 i think works ok, and thats not a bad file manager.
Nodtveidt
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Post by Nodtveidt »

I ran a few homebrew FB apps in ReactOS...most ran but a few didn't. I should boot the sucka up again and see if I can find out exactly which calls failed...
Sterling Christensen
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Post by Sterling Christensen »

Nodtveidt wrote:The only available Explorer-like application that's available for ReactOS is a sad, sad piece of ... well, you get the idea. I've got plenty of experience in writing file managers but oh well...guess they don't want MY help...here's hoping someone who doesn't suck manages to write one for the project. :D
Agreed. And I think they probably could use your help. Their file manager really does suck.
anonymous1337
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Post by anonymous1337 »

Umm...Wouldn't windows complain though if the operating system was built using software for windows? Just a thought.

They're verry rich and powerful, i'd be careful what I'm using to build an OS off of. Then again...no one does that kind of programming needed to build the original operating systems any more.
Chronos
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Post by Chronos »

If Microsoft did that they'd have to go after all the other projects that let you run Windows apps (Wine for linux being my primary thought on the matter, but I could be entirely wrong about that, in terms of actual topic accuracy)

Really, all they're doing is supporting Microsoft Windows API calls. So long as they're using their own GUI and making their own code to handle the API calls, everything should be fine. I guess I'd have to check out ReactOS before I could say any more, so I'll stop here.

Suffice to say, it wouldn't be worth MS's time. They have bigger issues (like software piracy) to worry about.

Important Addendum:
VonGodric wrote:Chronos - would you be interested in making a fake-os that internally "functions" as "real" os? You sure could help us...
Sorry for not noticing the above quoted post...for one reason or another I didn't see it. Saw it now, and that's what matters (I hope. *sweatdrop*)

That sounds pretty cool to me. I've managed to make clones of MD, RD, Delete and Type so far, just to see if it could be done. My versions look a bit better than the originals too. (That is, if I didn't inadvertantly delete them when I cleaned up my USB flash drive. If I did, there's always a rewrite, which I really don't mind doing. :P) I've actually been wanting to implement a scripting language, but I don't have enough knowledge of language development to do so. But hey, this sounds like something right up my alley, so I'll give whatever help I can. :D

I don't know how much time I'll have to dedicate to the project (moved August 1st and a lot is still going on, even 2 days from the first of October), but I'll definitely put what time I can into it.

Another addendum:
And I am, by no rights, an advanced programmer. I know BASIC-likes pretty well, but the C++ course I took in high school (including knowledge on pointers and using them) eludes me. I know what they are, and what they do, but using them is a little past me at the moment. Always willing to re-learn, though, so if I'm need to utilise them I'm sure there are good internet resources to look at.
spiner
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Post by spiner »

Hi guys.
I just came out from an operating system seminar really really exciting and I had the chance to meet a real operating system development guru and to talk with him, I'm still trying to understand if I was dreaming or not!
Anyway, let's go to the point: an operating environment written in Freebasic.
Why freebasic: well, many of us are used to... let's say "more advanced language", but at least for me is some sort of coming back to the roots were all started (even if I started with 6502 hex code, no assembler yet available on my naked CPU card with 2 KBytes of RAM, BASIC was the first high level language I put my hands on), and anyway at least for now I think we are doing it just for fun enjoying coding, so it doesn't matter if we are not using the most suitable language.
Second, maybe is a good chance to push to the limits (if any) a very good opensource programming environment realizing a project in a complete opensource philosophy.
Some ideas:
- I've always had passion to actively reuse old computer architectures with low resources, so a good idea could be to write an operating environment for a text-based linux system that could run on a very low-end machine: a new command shell with completely rewritten commands putting together the best features coming from our experience even with other OSes, maybe a text-based windowing environment, if needed (or just if wanted) a new file system abstraction layer, and so on.
Is there anyone really interested in this mad mad adventure?
If yes we could try to start to write down some system specs.

Ad maiora.

/Spiner
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