32bit TSR

DOS specific questions.
angros47
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby angros47 » Jul 14, 2018 12:53

By reading some of Gablea's previous post, I have the impression that the reason he still needs DOS is hardware-related (writing software for ATM-like devices, based on old hardware, but too expensive to be replaced)

Also, I remembered this specific distro: https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/, that has basically the same requirements of Desqview/X
Gablea
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby Gablea » Jul 14, 2018 13:48

Angros47 is correct I am limited to hardware at the moment as customers still want functions (like live database links to mysql) but still want to use the existing hardware (most are 600MHz machines with 512mb ram bf to have windows and the newest version of my pos on that is slows down to a crawel)

I’ve been looking at Linux as well as dos as alternatives but I’ve not had much experience with Linux systems and dos was what I use to know a lot.
marcov
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby marcov » Jul 14, 2018 14:50

Gablea wrote: but I’ve not had much experience with Linux systems and dos was what I use to know a lot.


If you are not chained to Dos hardware wise, go to Linux. Immediately. IMHO that was such an open door, that I assumed that the chained to dos was the case and I didn't mention the Linux option.
Gablea
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby Gablea » Jul 14, 2018 16:22

The only reason why I was thinking about DOS is I know the commands how to set up lan cards etc

In Linux I can not even work out how to auto start my program (in dos I can just add the path to the end of the autoexec.bat)
marcov
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby marcov » Jul 14, 2018 16:34

Gablea wrote:The only reason why I was thinking about DOS is I know the commands how to set up lan cards etc

In Linux I can not even work out how to auto start my program (in dos I can just add the path to the end of the autoexec.bat)


Yeah, new things are hard. But sometimes necessary. And in this case it was alreay necessary close to 10-15 years ago.
Gablea
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby Gablea » Jul 14, 2018 17:20

Not really 10 years ago as I have very stable 16bit pos application writen in PDS 7.1. But we move to windows and all our apps are now done in .net. But I want to relaunch a low end system Hence the thread now.

I do like Linux especially the fact that I can run my FreeBASIC app on the CLI and use the frame buffer to do the graphics.
angros47
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby angros47 » Jul 14, 2018 20:12

DOS is obsolete, that's true. But it was an important part of computer history, and in some niche applications it still is the best option. An option that we have thanks to FreeDos, otherwise we could only rely on unsupported abandonware. FreeDos made possible other important projects, like DosBox.
And the reason FreeDos has been made, saving part of computer history, is because there are people like Gablea, that wanted to save it, and put effort into that. So, I wish you the best luck
Gablea
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby Gablea » Jul 14, 2018 23:55

Thanks angros47 sometimes I feel that I’m fighting s loosing battle everyone keeps saying “oh use Windows it’s easier” but it’s not always the best solution in some cases.

For example my PoS systems. I will admit I do have a Windows .net version of the application to work on brand new hardware but there is a demand for simple and powerful software to run on older machines that was I like dos as a till is if you think about it is just doing one thing. It is running just one application I’m sure once I have ported by PDS version of my pos over to FreeBASIC I could start supporting in a limited way the old dos system again.

But until then I’ll have to keep working hard.
marcov
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby marcov » Jul 15, 2018 8:57

angros47 wrote:DOS is obsolete, that's true. But it was an important part of computer history,


True. As in the past.
and in some niche applications it still is the best option.


I can imagine that you fumble around a bit with dos to replace of an inhouse system and keep it running a bit longer. But to do new development for or to dispatch to customers ? Ugh.
angros47
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby angros47 » Jul 15, 2018 10:27

Marcov.... I am sure someone in the past asked V1ctor why he tried to rebuild quick basic, instead of just switching to visual basic for windows. And I am sure that someone asked you why you tried to rebuild a copy of turbo pascal instead of just switching to Delphi. But neither V1ctor, nor you accepted to switch to what someone else thought you should have used, and instead, you continued doing things in your way. And now, FreeBasic and FreePascal are likely the most important open source compilers, for their languages. But they were born as attempt to keep alive DOS programming. So, don't be harsh with one of the few developers trying to keep DOS programming alive.
marcov
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby marcov » Jul 15, 2018 10:32

angros47 wrote:Marcov.... I am sure someone in the past asked V1ctor why he tried to rebuild quick basic, instead of just switching to visual basic for windows. And I am sure that someone asked you why you tried to rebuild a copy of turbo pascal instead of just switching to Delphi.


True, but that was in 1995. It is now 2018.

And now, FreeBasic and FreePascal are likely the most important open source compilers, for their languages. But they were born as attempt to keep alive DOS programming. So, don't be harsh with one of the few developers trying to keep DOS programming alive.


I've no problem with keeping it alive. I even assisted with FPC's 16-bit compiler. But that is nostalgia nad hobby.

And that is not what we are talking about here. We are here talking about professional development, in what I assume is a situation where the manufacturer at least have to give some support. If only replacement PC parts in say 5 years.
angros47
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby angros47 » Jul 15, 2018 10:47

marcov wrote:I've no problem with keeping it alive. I even assisted with FPC's 16-bit compiler. But that is nostalgia nad hobby.


And aren't you happy to see that your hobby is actually useful for someone?
Gablea
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby Gablea » Jul 15, 2018 16:18

Yes I understand DOS is not 100% ideal for a commercial application but the benefits do out weight the negatives

Some of the benefits I have found is
> older hardware can be reused saving retailer money
> Speed of loading (retailers do not have to wait for Windows to load before they can even start the PoS applications)
> Direct hardware communication to the printers and scanners (this alone speeds up the program and makes it faster then the windows versions)

and our DOS applications do not even look like dos any more most of my customers who have looked at our DOS systems first belive they are Windows applciations until we say no they are 100% DOS based.

and yes some of the negatives are
> No USB Support for newer hardware (like scales)
> No support (yet) of accessing a MySQL Database from a DOS application (as we have migrated from Firebird SQL to MySQL for speed)

I have been looking into moving to linux and dropping windows fully from my supported OS list but until my company and myself is happy that we can do the same functions on linux that we can on Windows then we would have to have something to work with

the DOS system is being aimed at customers who do not yet want the full functions of our Windows / linux application. I am also even getting retailers who are still asking for DOS systems as they can run for Months or even years with out any problems (unlike windows that needs to be rebooted regularly to run smoothly)

I have seen loads of Retails being forced to move from Simple yet working systems that have served them for years to windows 10 (personally i believe this is so Microsoft can spy on what they are doing)

and after all all i am trying to do is fill a gap in the market for decent simple to use point of sale software. I never though it would start a full blown discussion.
angros47
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby angros47 » Jul 15, 2018 16:37

I also remembered one thing: in QBasic there was a solution to copy files in background, while you were using your software, and it was used in a GUI called Windoze. Years ago I ported it to FreeBasic... and I remember you were interested, and we also exchanged some mails, to get it to work on your system. As far as I recall, it had some routines to copy files in background, if you still have it, have a look at it, too
Gablea
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Re: 32bit TSR

Postby Gablea » Jul 15, 2018 18:51

@angos47

yes I was very interested in that but I lost the source code you sent me a few months ago when my primary server decided to blow up

if you could I would be most grateful if you could send me the link / source code again so I could look into it more (if I rember right we was talking about the chance of using large fonts in the program)

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