Squares

General FreeBASIC programming questions.
albert
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Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 18, 2019 16:44

@Richard

John Scott Russell's book says , water waves travel at all different speeds...

The 23 meters a second , i got from this website. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/watwav.html
(The speed of rogue waves..)

I was thinking that:
If you drop a pebble ( 1/4 ounce ) into a foot wide bowl of water , the wave would take like a 1/2 second to come back to the center.
If you drop a 1 ounce weight into a foot wide bowl of water, the wave would take like 1/8 second to return to the center...

I think the more massive the weight the faster the wave...

You could say the 1/4 ounce weight displaces "qt" volume of water per second..
You could say the 1 ounce weight displaces "qt x 4" volume of water per second..

So:
You would take the distance from the center of the bowl to the outside ( 6 inches )
And (multiply or divide) that by the "qt" per second. to get the wave time (in seconds)..
You might also have to calculate in: density of water and force of gravity???
( Gravity: drop the pebble from 2 foot height would make a bigger wave than dropping it form 1 foot height..) ( acceleration x volume )


Interesting thought:
If you drop two pebbles , form 1 foot height that are the same volume but different densities. steel / gold
Would they make the same height and speed of wave , in the bowl of water?
Since both pebbles displace the same volume of water , they should both make the same wave..

If they both make the same wave , then:
A cubic inch fishing bobber , dropped from 1 foot , would make the same speed and height of wave as dropping a cubic inch block of steel.
( Acceleration * Volume) = displacement per second = wave speed ??
albert
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Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 18, 2019 20:07

@Richard

I think the formula would be more complex than just : ( Acceleration * Volume) = displacement per second = wave speed ??

You would need to know how fast the volume takes to completely submerge...
How many meters per second is the height of the volume (object) ?
That would tell you how many seconds it takes to displace the volume of the water.. Might also , be a mater of water density?

A 1 inch cubic fishing bobber , would only sink like half way , when dropped from a foot , compared to the cubic inch of steel.
So the bobber would make like 1/2 the wave speed / height of the steel cube.

I don't think you could reverse the formula??
To say: Wave height "h" and velocity "v" , must have been caused by volume "n" at velocity "x"
There are two unknowns?
I don't think you could solve for that....
But maybe the velocities are the same : A 1 mph velocity wave , must have been caused by a 1 mph velocity volume.????
In a U-Tube of water , you push one side down at 1 mph the other end rises up at 1 mph..

In Sumatra:
A section of the Techtonic plate , broke off , and fell several hundred feet , to the bottom of the ocean.
Sucking water from the shore like a low tide. The water then built up and returned at like 500 mph and 35 feet high.
So with that: The plate volume must have fallen into the deep at 500 mph??? That exceeds the speed of gravity.
Maybe with that:
You would calculate the elasticity of water??
How fast does water fill the void left behind an object traveling through it..
When you move your hand through water, it creates a vacuum behind your hand.
The water fills that vacuum at a certain speed...maybe 500 mph???
But that's faster than gravity??
Gravity is only like 180 mph..
The water moving caused a high tide in Africa and a low tide in Sumatra.
So:
Maybe you would take all the water in the high tide and multiply it by the weight of water per cubic foot.
That weight pushing down , towards Sumatra might equal a wave 500 mph.


When you put two drops of water on a micro-scope slide.
Then you push one drop towards the other , at a certain distance, they will combine into a single drop.
Maybe that speed of combination , is several hundred mph?
Water is para-magnetic , so the combining of water drops might equal the speed of magnetism.
albert
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Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 19, 2019 1:04

I used to cook at a 4 diamond restaurant.
The Souse Chef , Collin Fonda , was a second Dan in Tai-Kwon-Do

He invited me to his do jo to watch the people practice.

He stacked 8 boards on a stand and said:
I'm going to break the sixth board.
He slammed his hand down on the stack , and the sixth board , shattered like glass , and flew out form both sides.
The other boards were unscathed..

To break a board is like creating a tsunami in the wood.
At a certain pressure and speed you can break the board.

How to create tsunami's or rogue waves in a building?

John Scott Russell , doesn't go into wave phasing to create a rogue waves ( solitary waves ) or Solitons.

So i have to figure it out on my own...

If you drop two pebbles in the water 2 feet apart from eachother , the waves go through each other , and continue...
So at what phasing does it take to double the wave height?

That's what i was saying:
Someone needs to do a paper on wave phasing..
"Wave phasing , to cause, "rogue waves" in solids , liquids and gasses"
If you can figure out how to create Solitons , you could get a Nobel Prize in Physics. And destroy the world!!!!! Don't want that to happen........
albert
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Joined: Sep 28, 2006 2:41
Location: California, USA

Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 19, 2019 2:13

Different objects have different flexibility..

If you flex and object passed it's maximum flexibility, it will break.

If you gently , tap a glass window with a hammer , it will flex..
The glass has a maximum flexibility of "x"
If you exceed that flexibility "x", it will break.

The same as wood , if you exceed the flexibility it will break.

You could exceed that flexibility in a single pulse ( tsunami )..
Or
keep flexing it at greater and greater pressures to eventually exceed the flexibility..

With the wineglass in the video , it took several seconds of pulsing the speaker at a certain volume to flex the glass to flexibility "x".
So eventually the wineglass flexed passed it's flexibility, and broke..
So the waves in the wineglass , eventually flexed the glass into breaking.. So there must have been some wave amplification. in the speaker pulsing the glass...
Richard
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Re: Squares

Postby Richard » Jun 19, 2019 2:59

Albert wrote:Different objects have different flexibility..
If you flex and object passed it's maximum flexibility, it will break.

Correct. That is shown in the stress strain diagram used by engineers to determine the strength of materials. That diagram also shows that deflection = strain, is directly proportional to force = stress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress%E2 ... rve#Stages

For small forces the deflections are small and the material is elastic, so it springs back to it's original form.
For bigger forces the material is plastic, so it “yields” a bit and will not spring all the way back.
Forces beyond the yield point break the material.
albert
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Location: California, USA

Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 19, 2019 15:50

@Richard

I think the formula would be more complex than just : ( Acceleration * Volume) = displacement per second

You would need to know how fast the volume takes to completely submerge... and how many meters per second is the height of the volume (object) ?

That would tell you how many seconds it takes to displace the volume of the water..
Might also , be a mater of water density

Question:
For a volume (object) 1 cubic centimeter , falling from 1 meter height: How many cubic centimeters of water would it displace a second?

Can you help me come up with a formula or equation ???

If the object 1 centimeter high and wide , submerges in 1/100 of a second. What would be the wave height and speed??

I posted the question here: https://www.askthephysicist.com/

Volume "n" , submerging entirely in time "t" , would cause wave height "h" at velocity "v" ??

If i slowly lower the cubic inch of steel into the water, it doesn't make a wave..
If i place a hammer on a sheet of glass , it doesn't make a wave.

A wave requires acceleration. That might help in the equation??
albert
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Location: California, USA

Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 19, 2019 22:43

I think the energy imparted to the water ( by a falling volume ) would be E = MV^2

I think the water can only support a certain energy per second.

If you exceed that energy per second , it causes a build up of pressure.

If i push the volume down slowly it produces no wave , but moves the water..( ie..swell )
If i push the volume down fast , it exceeds the energy absorption of water and results in a build up of pressure that then manifests as a wave.

If you exceed the speed of sound in air, it produces sonic booms
if you exceed the maximum speed of water it produces air pockets ( Cavitation )

Cavitation happens with high power speed boats, when the propeller exceeds a certain mph.
It also happens in pans of water being heated up, Air pockets form at the bottom of the pan , that then float up to indicate boiling.

So it requires a certain acceleration to cause waves in water.

===========================================================================================================

John Scott Russell's book says , it takes a 1 mph wind to ripple water.

5,280 × 12 = 63,360 inches per mile

63,360 \ 3,600 = 17.6 inches per second to agitate water.

So to create a wave , requires acceleration equal to or greater then 17.6 inches a second..

Once you hit or exceed the 17.6 inches a second.
It causes a column of water to rise up , that then falls down at the speed of gravity on the column and causes a flow that travels out as a wave.

===========================================================================================================

volume x acceleration = displacement per second , wouldn't be right...

It depends on the dimensions of the volume.. How many square inches is the bottom of the volume..
If i drop a perfect airfoil into the water , it makes almost no wave.
Dropping 1 square inch , would cause "x" displacement..
Dropping 2 square inch , would cause "x*2" displacement..

Doing a "Cannon Ball" in water ( curling up into a ball and falling in butt first ) makes like a 3 foot wave.
Dropping into the water at an angle , feet first , then hips , then shoulders, makes a 4.5 foot wave.. ( more area per second )

So the buildup of the column , depends on the square area of the displacement per second..

Like with air , you need to calculate the drag of the volume...The more drag , the higher the column of water that rises up in the collision..

So:
If i drop two weights into the water, that both weigh the same , one cubic and one spherical , the cubic one would make a higher column of water rise up then the spherical one. ( as it has more drag. )

So:
For a mass falling into water. The formula would be E = mass * drag * velocity^2
albert
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Location: California, USA

Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 20, 2019 16:08

@Richard

if you exceed the maximum speed of water it produces air pockets ( Cavitation )

Cavitation happens with high power speed boats, when the propeller exceeds a certain mph.
Cavitation also happens in pans of water being heated up, Air pockets form at the bottom of the pan , that then float up to indicate boiling.

For the bubbles rising up from the bottom of the pan..
The bubbles , must rise up at 17.6 inches a second or faster..To agitate the surface..


So: For a mass falling into water. The formula would be E = mass * drag * velocity ^ 2

Drag: https://www.google.com/search?client=ub ... zTElIe3YwU

How would you turn 17.6 inches per second and E , into ( inch pounds ) or , ( millimeter grams )

Given: E =
mass = 1 gram
drag = 1 ( providing a perfect airfoil is drag 1 )
velocity = 1 meter per second

Would the energy be: 1 meter gram ?

How would you calculate in the 17.6 inches per second?
Richard
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Location: Australia

Re: Squares

Postby Richard » Jun 20, 2019 19:17

Not only must the two sides of an equation be numerically equal, but the equation must also have the same units and dimensions on both sides.

Albert wrote:Acceleration * Volume = displacement per second;
Displacement has dimension of length.
Volume has dimensions of length * length * length .
Acceleration has dimensions of length /time /time.
But; ( length /time /time ) * ( length * length * length ) ≠ ( length / time )
length *length *length *length /time /time ≠ length / time

Albert wrote:Would the energy be: 1 meter gram ?
No. That is impossible because length times force is a torque or moment, not energy.
Energy is measured in joules, which have units of Energy = mass *length *length /time /time.
mass *length *length /time /time ≠ length *mass.
Again, your dimensions do not balance.

So long as you do not understand common factors in algebra you will be unable to guess physics.
dodicat
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Re: Squares

Postby dodicat » Jun 20, 2019 19:51

Cavitation on propellers (at sea say) is due to the pressure being reduced behind a blade to such an extent that the water boils at the blade surface at sea temperature.
They are not bubbles of air, but water vapour.
Same with boiling at 100 degrees in a pot, water vapour bubbles appear.

For things travelling through a liquid, Stokes Law can be used.
http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/152.mf1i.spring02/Stokes_Law.htm
This uses the aforementioned dimensional analyses as a tool.
albert
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Joined: Sep 28, 2006 2:41
Location: California, USA

Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 20, 2019 20:31

@Richard

John Scott Russel's book: says it takes at least a 1 mph wind to disturb the water surface.. ( cause ripples )

1 mph = 17.6 inches a second.

I'm trying to figure out how much mass or volume , it takes moving at that 17.6 inches per second to make a ripple..

If i stir the water with a pin , will it make ripples at speed = 17.6 inches a second?
If i stir the water with my hand , do i have to move my hand at speed = 17.6 inches per second to cause ripples?

Maybe , all masses and volumes , have to be at speed 1 mph to cause ripples.??
With that: a boat of any size needs to move at 1 mph to create ripples....
Richard
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Location: Australia

Re: Squares

Postby Richard » Jun 20, 2019 20:55

Albert wrote:John Scott Russel's book: says it takes at least a 1 mph wind to disturb the water surface.. ( cause ripples )
I do not believe that is a true quote.
When you quote from a book you must give a page number reference so any reader can check the context.
albert
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Location: California, USA

Re: Squares

Postby albert » Jun 20, 2019 21:17

@Richard

It's a protected "PDF" file , i can't cut and paste the section..

https://ia802604.us.archive.org/24/item ... ssgoog.pdf

It's on page 19 , at the bottom
dodicat
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Re: Squares

Postby dodicat » Jun 20, 2019 21:37

The Beaufort scale exists for this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale
Richard
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Location: Australia

Re: Squares

Postby Richard » Jun 20, 2019 22:00

Get a copy of capture2text, then you can ocr text from images on your screen.
Russell, Page 19,20 wrote:Let him begin his observations in a perfect calm, when the surface of the water is smooth, and reflects like a mirror the images of surrounding objects. This appearance Will not be affected by even a slight motion of the air, and a velocity of less than half a mile an hour (8½ in. per sec.) does not sensibly disturb the smoothness of the reflecting surface. A gentle zephyr flitting along the surface from point to point, may be observed to destroy the perfection of the mirror for a moment, and on departing, the surface remains polished as before; if the air have a velocity of about a mile an hour, the surface of the water becomes less capable of distinct reflection, and on observing it in such a condition, it is to be noticed that the diminution of this reflecting power is owing to the presence of those minute corrugations of the superficial film which form Waves of the third order.
Russell does not say there is anything magical about 1 mph. He is describing a progressive phenomena where waves are formed at the boundary of two fluids having different density.
The response is proportional to the stimulation. There is no minimum threshold.

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