Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

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paul doe
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by paul doe »

joeyxl wrote:...Funny, last night i was watching a documentary about Chess Computers, and i wondered, could i do that with freeBASIC?
...
Sure. Some members here (Roland Chastain and Luis Babboni, to name but two) have made chess engines. You might have a look at their work if you're interested.
joeyxl
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by joeyxl »

caseih wrote:I find I'm most successful in learning a new language, or learning anything new, when I have some pet project or something actually useful in mind. Unless I have something specific to do with a language, I find it hard to really get into. Be it programming, 3D design and 3D printing, electronics, or whatever.
Thats a good point. Theres somthing i should think of then. Not too sure right now though.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by deltarho[1859] »

@caseih

That is simply giving ourselves a target without which we are liable to drift. A target keeps us on focus. Of course, a target may not be a full-blooded application but simply a code snippet to test an idea. I have a folder full of code snippets tested during application development. I dumped all the failures and kept all the successful ones. Some of those snippets have been used time and again.
badidea
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by badidea »

joeyxl wrote:At the current moment, im just learning a language because i want to learn how to program. this is a hobby for me. I am doing this for fun. I currently have no projects in mind or objectives other than learning the language itself...
Then freebasic is perfect :-)
paul doe wrote:
joeyxl wrote:...Funny, last night i was watching a documentary about Chess Computers, and i wondered, could i do that with freeBASIC?
...
Sure. Some members here (Roland Chastain and Luis Babboni, to name but two) have made chess engines. You might have a look at their work if you're interested.
Although it distracts from actual programming, you may also like the AlphaGo Documentary.

I think that Roland Chastain only made a user interface in freebasic to play against chess computers (AI) by others, but I could be wrong. See: https://github.com/rchastain/eschecs

I myself did make a checkers / draughts computer in 2007 (https://freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8360). A few changes are probably needed to make it compatible with the current freebasic compiler and there are still some bugs to solve. A checkers / draughts computer is easier then chess, but still pretty complex to write. Don't start with that until you grok (fully understand) recursion.
joeyxl
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by joeyxl »

badidea wrote:
joeyxl wrote:At the current moment, im just learning a language because i want to learn how to program. this is a hobby for me. I am doing this for fun. I currently have no projects in mind or objectives other than learning the language itself...
Then freebasic is perfect :-)
paul doe wrote:
joeyxl wrote:...Funny, last night i was watching a documentary about Chess Computers, and i wondered, could i do that with freeBASIC?
...
Sure. Some members here (Roland Chastain and Luis Babboni, to name but two) have made chess engines. You might have a look at their work if you're interested.
Although it distracts from actual programming, you may also like the AlphaGo Documentary.

I think that Roland Chastain only made a user interface in freebasic to play against chess computers (AI) by others, but I could be wrong. See: https://github.com/rchastain/eschecs

I myself did make a checkers / draughts computer in 2007 (https://freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8360). A few changes are probably needed to make it compatible with the current freebasic compiler and there are still some bugs to solve. A checkers / draughts computer is easier then chess, but still pretty complex to write. Don't start with that until you grok (fully understand) recursion.

I think starting with checkers is a great idea. but as you said, im nowhere near doing anything like that yet. right now im learning the bitwise operators right now actually. If i make a chess/checkers computer, i want to make it take input for the opponent move and then output its move.
MrSwiss
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by MrSwiss »

Just a sort of WARNING.

Too many beginners, at the start, "bite off more, than they can chew".

Meaning:
  • picking too big a project
  • getting frustrated because it takes to long, before seeing results
  • quitting programming early, out of pure frustration
badidea
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by badidea »

I agree with MrSwiss, but at the same time, setting the goal too low is also not motivating.
Even more simple then checkers is a tic-tac-toe computer (to play against).
Lost Zergling
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by Lost Zergling »

@joeyxl. lzle is a datastructure implementation designed for FB, wich implement cool features like garbagecollector and indexing. Understanding lists and/or some datastructures is a step for beginner/intermediate programmers, and may be a tool for some more advanced programmers. You can find it here viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26533
I really hope this tool can help you discover the powerfullness of FB !
joeyxl
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by joeyxl »

MrSwiss wrote:Just a sort of WARNING.

Too many beginners, at the start, "bite off more, than they can chew".

Meaning:
  • picking too big a project
  • getting frustrated because it takes to long, before seeing results
  • quitting programming early, out of pure frustration
I agree 100%, I need to think of smaller projects first. Maybe something Taking a number, printing out its binary value, its twos compliment, and its hexadecimal value? i dunno just throwing ideas around.


badidea wrote: I agree with MrSwiss, but at the same time, setting the goal too low is also not motivating.
Even more simple then checkers is a tic-tac-toe computer (to play against).
Your username does not suit you :P. That is such a good idea! Thank you for bringing that up.
caseih
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by caseih »

When I was very young I was given a book aimed at teaching programming to children using BASIC. I think there were versions for Apple II, C64, and IBM PC. It was full of very simple games. Guessing games, simple math puzzles, etc. Was an excellent introduction to programming. These days, such simple programs seem boring to kids, sadly. What expert programmers do with OpenGL, physics engines, etc, all makes the fundamentals seem boring. But they are vitally important!

Someone mentioned a while back that QBasic is not a good language to learn in this modern age. I disagree. I think it could be rather good still, although FB isn't much of a jump so just as well to start there. Interesting read: http://www.nicolasbize.com/blog/30-year ... -the-best/ Even though modern languages are quite accessible, QBasic hit a sweet spot.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by deltarho[1859] »

I agree with MrSwiss but it is not always possible to tell if we have bitten off more than we can chew until we start to choke on it. I remember when I started GUI programming over at the PowerBASIC forum after a couple of years DOS programming my first project involved some Windows APIs which are convoluted to say the least. It nearly broke me and I thought "If this is Windows programming they can keep it." I finally got there, and it was many years before I saw such convolution again - with the cryptography APIs. However, by then the APIs were less intimidating.

Setting goals too low is not a problem because you can 'up the ante'. The Example Programs at Virtual Ink are not carved in stone. You can play around with them. At some point you may find some editing will not compile or you get rubbish results, and you will then utter the immortal words "Oh, dear!", or words to that effect, and you will then have entered the world of programming when your machine does exactly what it is told and not what it thinks you meant to do.
BasicCoder2
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by BasicCoder2 »

caseih wrote:Someone mentioned a while back that QBasic is not a good language to learn in this modern age.
In your link I see the author writes,

"When developing a skill, it is much better to acquire the right reflexes from the start rather than have to correct years of bad practice."
BasicCoder2
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by BasicCoder2 »

joeyxl wrote:Maybe something Taking a number, printing out its binary value, its twos compliment, and its hexadecimal value? i dunno just throwing ideas around.
Binary numbers, twos complement, hexadecimal ... yikes takes me back to my first computer language called machine code!

Once you have grasped the basic concepts then maybe tic-tac-toe might be something doable. Of course I don't know your current level of knowledge particularly as you have already played around with Python and clearly understand binary numbers?

So now we await your next post "My first FreeBasic program" :)
joeyxl
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by joeyxl »

deltarho[1859] wrote:I agree with MrSwiss but it is not always possible to tell if we have bitten off more than we can chew until we start to choke on it. I remember when I started GUI programming over at the PowerBASIC forum after a couple of years DOS programming my first project involved some Windows APIs which are convoluted to say the least. It nearly broke me and I thought "If this is Windows programming they can keep it." I finally got there, and it was many years before I saw such convolution again - with the cryptography APIs. However, by then the APIs were less intimidating.

Setting goals too low is not a problem because you can 'up the ante'. The Example Programs at Virtual Ink are not carved in stone. You can play around with them. At some point you may find some editing will not compile or you get rubbish results, and you will then utter the immortal words "Oh, dear!", or words to that effect, and you will then have entered the world of programming when your machine does exactly what it is told and not what it thinks you meant to do.
Yes, i also agree that playing around with things like the examples is good. Thats what i plan to do at least.
BasicCoder2 wrote:Binary numbers, twos complement, hexadecimal ... yikes takes me back to my first computer language called machine code!

Once you have grasped the basic concepts then maybe tic-tac-toe might be something doable. Of course I don't know your current level of knowledge particularly as you have already played around with Python and clearly understand binary numbers?

So now we await your next post "My first FreeBasic program" :)
I am understanding binary a lot more from freeBASIC tutorials than from python. How looking at each bit is a power of 2 e,g. 2^0 = first bit, 2^1 = second bit etc...I also cannot wait to get my first program going, maybe leaping into the tic-tac-toe isn't such a bad idea!
MrSwiss
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Re: Is FreeBASIC good for beginners to progrmaming?

Post by MrSwiss »

found by BasicCoder2 wrote:"When developing a skill, it is much better to acquire the right reflexes from the start rather than have to correct years of bad practice."
GREEN = referes to FB dialect
BLUE = referes to QB dialect (especially for people, starting from scratch)

Btw: that's been the reason I've earlier stated that, starting with QB then switching to FB, is a waste of time.
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