Forum Moderators

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MrSwiss
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Forum Moderators

Postby MrSwiss » Nov 11, 2018 18:33

<snip> admins, as long as there are no elected/appointed Mod's, should have done it,
quite some time ago (from delta... thread, which is by now, clearly 'off-topic').

Typical Mod. intervention ... should look like this, IMO.

On-Topic, again: the only currently not electable member, is delta..., because of:
  • resigned members are automatically considered: "not electable"
  • attempted intimidation/coercion into: "make me Moderator or else ..." (A: NO-GO ZONE!)
  • the need to add a lot of: red-tape (instead of: application of common sense)
  • proven inability, to stop a thread going OT (the classic Mod. job, among others)
    (this is by no means, a complete list, could easily be extended)
To be honest, the only thing that should be changed quickly is:
instead of invisible interventions (as currently done) is: make them visible (so that
members can see them, with reason).
Pritchard
Posts: 5492
Joined: Sep 12, 2005 20:06
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Forum Moderators

Postby Pritchard » Nov 11, 2018 20:42

Capital letters mean you're super serious.

My biggest issue being a mod here would be not laughing over how riled up the autists in the forum get over the absolute most petty stuff.

Image
St_W
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby St_W » Nov 11, 2018 21:05

Pritchard wrote:My biggest issue being a mod here would be not laughing over how riled up the autists in the forum get over the absolute most petty stuff.
Yet, this is (by far) not the first discussion of that kind we had, so there must be some issue. Just ignoring it and globally accusing most of the forum members of being oversensitive autists doesn't make it better, though. You and me may consider it petty, but others maybe don't, and we should respect that.
Pritchard
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby Pritchard » Nov 11, 2018 21:15

FreeBASIC's Forum is not the only forum I'm a member of, and I actually still have a young and active professional life.

My perspective is as follows - there has not been a single time where someone outside of here has yelled at me in any form that they do here WITH CAPITAL LETTERS or even ENTITLED CAPITAL BOLD LETTERS WITH ITALICS. If that happened, we'd probably boot that person and / or seek new business relationships.

They're cranky old autists to whom this forum is their version of a traditional woman's knitting group or stamp collection club. Except people actually buy stamps so those have actual, even if still niche, value. It's ridiculous and they are generally not worth listening to. <wink> <laugh> <retired and need a new hobby> <:lol:>

So our forum mods have to come in like nice gentle men in white suits and try to give these folks a tranquilizer dart to calm themselves down, but they are absolutely stubborn folks and unwavering in their opinions so it's generally a waste of time even having that discussion with them.

They're rude and then play off their rudeness with every kind of excuse for their behaviors, or fake apologies followed by "but you're wrong". They have no intention of listening to others or changing their ways.

In any healthy functioning social group they would be either banned or pushed away for their repeatedly stubborn and rude behaviors, but I guess the nearly deserted FB forums don't have much of privilege in being choosy.
St_W
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby St_W » Nov 11, 2018 22:30

Pritchard wrote:FreeBASIC's Forum is not the only forum I'm a member of, and I actually still have a young and active professional life.
So do I and I somehow also agree with the other statements you made, but the people you're talking about are just a minority (at least that's what I hope/believe). As you mentioned capital letters, those are actually only repeatedly used by few users.
The thing is that we cannot simply continue as if nothing happened, but have to conclude actions to improve the situation. A regular forum user can barely change anything, so one of the ideas was, returning to the thread's topic, to elect forum moderators because the current ones don't have enough time and (understandably) don't want to be the gentle men in white suits you were talking about. Unfortunately we're apparently again at the beginning with that idea and seeking for people who want and can do that and also are generally accepted.
Of course having additional moderators could go wrong and make the situation even worse, but having tried and failed is still better than doing nothing and expecting something to change.
jj2007
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby jj2007 » Nov 11, 2018 23:42

Pritchard wrote:They're cranky old autists
I find it pretty unfair to call MrSwiss a cranky old autist. It is generally a very bad sign if members of a forum start using such kind of language; it normally means somebody is short of arguments. Insults should never ever be part of a professional person's vocabulary.
St_W
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby St_W » Nov 12, 2018 0:48

Nobody mentioned MrSwiss explicitly (except you) - the cited statement refers to an (anonymous) group of trolls. Such a generalisation is definitely not very nice, that's for sure (see also my previous comments), but it's no direct personal insult and describes the factual behaviour of those people accurately to some extent. IMHO that makes a difference. As we've already seen in the past often it depends on how something is said.
sancho3
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby sancho3 » Nov 12, 2018 1:19

@Mr. Swiss. Feeling a little cornered eh? Yes, well that comes with the trail you have embarked on.
Is everyone wrong when they (so many people) have asked you not to be insulting? I guess it's asking too much for you to be just a little bit nicer?
There is not one example of you being snide or combative wherein the point you are making cannot be made without those insults.
Can you not just keep personal attacks out of your replies?
etiquette the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group.


@Topic:
The very fact that Counting_pine and Coder_Jeff are talking about electing a mod is reason enough to do it. They would be the ones who know if we need it or not.

The power to suspend/ban a user should not be given to the mod. The power to recommend a ban would suffice. I see it working such that 'Mod' recommends banning 'User' for reasons A, B, and C. This recommendation would go to the admin (Coder Jeff, Counting Pine). They review and act at their own discretion.

And I see no reason why deltarho[1859] cannot be a mod.
St_W
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby St_W » Nov 12, 2018 8:15

sancho3 wrote:And I see no reason why deltarho[1859] cannot be a mod.
A desire for revenge is definitely not one of the best properties for a moderator, but I can understand it to some extent. Otherwise I would've agreed.
Pritchard
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby Pritchard » Nov 12, 2018 18:36

jj2007 wrote:
Pritchard wrote:They're cranky old autists
I find it pretty unfair to call MrSwiss a cranky old autist. It is generally a very bad sign if members of a forum start using such kind of language; it normally means somebody is short of arguments. Insults should never ever be part of a professional person's vocabulary.

I used "they". I meant plural.

St_W wrote:
sancho3 wrote:And I see no reason why deltarho[1859] cannot be a mod.
A desire for revenge is definitely not one of the best properties for a moderator, but I can understand it to some extent. Otherwise I would've agreed.
sancho3 wrote:And I see no reason why deltarho[1859] cannot be a mod.

You mean any reason why they would lose the cranky old autist popularity contest? Because if you really mean "mod", this thread doesn't exactly help their case: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26925

Getting cranky then a mod having to put you in your place (and STILL complaining after-the-fact) isn't exactly great candidate for forum moderator behavior: viewtopic.php?p=250938#p250938

I mean, neither does creating threads specifically to call out users, or calling out users publicly then saying all the naughty things you wish you could do to them. I just hope he doesn't give me a spanking.
sancho3
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby sancho3 » Nov 13, 2018 7:05

@Pritchard:
Yes he handled that thread poorly.
However, the point he was making was echoed by counting pine in tips and tricks, wherein he wants posters in that thread to not just post code but explain it.
In this case I believe (not %100 sure) mrminecraft is ESL (English as a second language) and therefore would warrant a lot of slack in that regard. And so Delta used way too much "in your face".

But you are wrong to say that he followed up by "still complaining".
He actually followed up by pointing out that he would abide by counting pines admonishment (perhaps grudgingly).
Here are the entire contents of the post made by kankouhin to which deltahatro linked:

killde by Symentec Endpoint Protection

Can you make heads or tales of it? I thought it might even be advertising. I googled it and still can't figure it out. I think ESL is playing a role here too but that is just a huge guess as the poster has only made 2 posts.
As far as I can see delta has a fair point here.

However the new mod should most definitely be able to control and conduct himself better than delta did in that thread and also in the resignation thread.
When we debate the position of mod it is important to note that rarely is there a need for this God to throw lightening bolts. Most of their time will be spent keeping the grass growing, if you catch my drift. (like being a soldier, 99% dull, 1% drama). This is a no-fun role to take on.
Has anyone else even volunteered?

Its a bit late now but Its probably best I keep my 2 cents out of it until coder Jeff/counting pine decide something and ask for input. I will try to do that going forward.
St_W
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby St_W » Nov 13, 2018 7:41

sancho3 wrote:killde by Symentec Endpoint Protection
Can you make heads or tales of it?
actually it isn't really hard to interpret: SEP (a virus scanner) deleted the binary. So this is just a notification about a false positive in SEP's virus detection.
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2003
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Forum Moderators

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 13, 2018 8:48

So far I have not contributed to any thread other than my resignation thread. However, I must say something with regard to Pritchard's last post. There is a variable missing from his equation when he posted the two links: I was not a moderator at the time. A Moderator's freedom of expression should not be as great as those of just a registered user; some views should be kept private.

This is now academic because I have stepped aside. Imortis has stepped forward and I hope others do.
coderJeff
Site Admin
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Re: Forum Moderators

Postby coderJeff » Nov 13, 2018 14:13

MrSwiss & deltarho, unless you are both willing to come to some kind of understanding or compromise, you two should probably refrain from interacting. Just sayin...

----

@Topic:
Yeah, off-topic content is one aspect of moderation. But I think we really need to look at the problem with a wider view.

Here's what I've observed on the forum as the current pattern of escalation:
- self moderation, members edit and clean up their own posts
- member moderation, members talk (post) to one another to resolve misunderstandings
- topic starting member moderation asking for moderator (admin) help to clean up content in their topic, or remove topic completely
- members reporting topics, asking for moderator (admin) intervention
- emails from moderator (admin) to members to attempt to resolve conflict
- posts in topics from moderator (admin) to attempt to resolve conflict
- public discussion, bedlam

My opinion is that this is the best we can do with the current resources we have.

So, on the table, is the proposal of installing moderators, to basically do what we are doing now except, for the following:
- unsolicited moderation and intervention (keep the grass growing)
- escalate issues to admin for final decisions (throw lightning bolts)

Up for consideration, is how to install moderators in a way that everyone will regard as fair. That takes time/effort to put together. Or, here's an opportunity, for a member, whether they want to be a moderator or not, draft up the solution and propose it.
MrSwiss
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Forum Moderators

Postby MrSwiss » Nov 13, 2018 15:11

@coderJeff,

to answer your statement, I've to go OT for a moment:
MrSwiss & deltarho, unless you are both willing to come to some kind of understanding or compromise, you two should probably refrain from interacting. Just sayin...
While I am willing to 'come to terms' with anybody, there is but one exception: liars.
delta... wrote:I lied earlier when I indicated that I would contact MrSwiss with a view to starting afresh if I was made a Moderator.
He clearly forgot the old adage: "Once a liar, always a liar."

You might have noted, that I've NOT, in any way interacted in: "Resignation" thread.
Even if I was heavily provoked into doing so ...
<end OT>

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