Resignation

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Munair
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Re: Resignation

Postby Munair » Nov 10, 2018 16:24

dodicat wrote:[..] for the other ordinary members like myself, we need a new official 1.06 build in the NEWS section of the forum.
There are builds I believe hidden in Ides.

I wholeheartedly agree! FreeBasic would very much benefit from a new compiler release. While forums members have been referring to this unofficial 1.06, I found releases via Google here: http://users.freebasic-portal.de/stw/builds/

But I'm not even sure if these releases are the ones being talked about. They seem to have fixed some bugs though. To those in the position of being allowed to publish an official new release, I'd say it's about time. The compiler and all those who contributed in the past and those who still contribute deserve it.

I'm also working on a project that is based on the FreeBasic compiler, partially because I strongly believe that this compiler deserves much more than merely a tool for hobbyists. And I'm taking the FreePascal compiler here as a bit of an example. The FreeBasic compiler IMO is nothing less.

So yeah, let's focus on what would benefit all.
coderJeff
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Re: Resignation

Postby coderJeff » Nov 10, 2018 16:26

@dodicat, I want to have var args working for 64 bit in the next release. Working on it but the code is rough. After var-args bug is fixed and merged to master, I will work on the 1.06 builds. Probably won't have any updated bindings though; that would add more months before next release.
Munair
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Re: Resignation

Postby Munair » Nov 10, 2018 16:34

coderJeff wrote:@dodicat, I want to have var args working for 64 bit in the next release. Working on it but the code is rough. After var-args bug is fixed and merged to master, I will work on the 1.06 builds. Probably won't have any updated bindings though; that would add more months before next release.

A bug-fix release in-between certainly wouldn't hurt.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 10, 2018 16:37

counting_pine wrote:democratically elect some people within the community

I like the sound of that. Two, for example, could bounce ideas off each other with regard conflicts which are particularly problematic.
coderJeff wrote:This is surprising because I can not recall, ever, in this history of the forum, anyone willingly volunteering to moderate the forums. We usually must beg.

The first third of my working life was behind a desk. It wasn't for me. The second third was with dealing with people - not over the 'phone or correspondence but face to face. With one job I was asked to train an ex-tank commander but he 'cracked up' after three months and left. A lot of my colleagues found the work stressful. I chugged away for 13 years and loved it. I found flying a desk was more stressful. It really does take all kinds to make a world.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 11, 2018 9:55

Whether or not I get an invitation I should like to put forward an idea which may be acceptable to the membership. It is based upon the system used for issuing penalty points for Road Traffic Act violations here in the UK but with a safeguard.

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Penalty points remain for one year from the date of issue. The points are cumulative ranging from one point for a rule breach, two points for an excessive rule breach and three points for a very excessive rule breach. A temporary 90-day suspension of posting will be issued if a total of three penalty points are received in a twelve month period.

So we could have a situation where two single penalty points or one double penalty points are issued for a number of years without a suspension being invoked. This situation is effectively the same as the old method of moderation. The difference with the old method of moderation is that there would be greater potential for a suspension of posting.

The decision to apply penalty points will not be made by a single moderator; two moderators will be required. The level applied will be the lesser of the two put forward by each moderator. Involving two moderators should mitigate the possibility of bias that could occur with the involvement of only one moderator.

So, for example, if moderator A felt that a double penalty point should be issued but moderator B felt that a single penalty point should be issued then a single penalty point would be issued. With a one/zero determination then no penalty points would be issued. Where there was agreement on the level then, obviously, that is what would be applied.

If a moderator decided to issue a warning only then there would be no need to contact another moderator.

The moderator who actually issues penalty points would be the first moderator to consider the conflict.

Moderators will not have the authority to issue a permanent suspension. However, if two moderators agree that a permanent suspension should be issued then no penalty points would be issued and a joint report sent to the administrators for their decision.
----------

There is plenty of scopes to tweak that. For example, the one year rule could be changed and/or the total number of penalty points required for a temporary suspension.

Added: I mentioned a guy above who was suspended at PowerBASIC some months ago. This is what was issued.
You have been permanently banned by Adam J. Drake for the following reason:
Trolling - and other repeated pushes of boundaries of rules and guidelines.

With the above protocol that would be a very rare event at FreeBASIC as it is at PowerBASIC.
marcov
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Re: Resignation

Postby marcov » Nov 11, 2018 12:35

Yes, clearly a desk-jockey. Tons of policies for a non existing problem :-)
Munair
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Re: Resignation

Postby Munair » Nov 11, 2018 13:37

marcov wrote:Yes, clearly a desk-jockey. Tons of policies for a non existing problem :-)

I think you've just proven Deltarho's point. If we show mutual respect to each other's ideas and opinions or at the very least ignore them, then discussions like these wouldn't be here in the first place.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 11, 2018 13:41

coderJeff wrote:... I have to prioritize between writing code and resolving disputes on the forums.

counting_pine wrote:I often don't feel I know the best thing to say or do in conflicts,

marcov wrote:a non existing problem :-)

To what extent I have no idea but the problem definitely exists. The fact that we don't see something is not evidence of non-existence.

I referred to HR Moderators. HR covers more than conflict resolution. CR Moderators ( Conflict Resolution Moderators ) does not cover situations where moderation is required where a complaint has not been lodged. RV Moderators (Rule Violation Moderators ) might do it.

A couple of RV Moderators would see coderJeff no longer getting bogged down with disputes. Similarly with counting_pine but counting_pine would need to get involved with permanent suspensions. However, that would be easier for him because he would have received not just one recommendation but two.

Desk-jockey is name calling. Not that I care but I wonder why. Perhaps it is because I have been critical of a couple of your posts in this thread. <smile>
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 11, 2018 13:43

On the button Munair. <wink>
dodicat
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Re: Resignation

Postby dodicat » Nov 11, 2018 14:03

Thank you coder Jeff.
I look forward to the official build.

deltarho[~]
I think marcov was testing you for potential moderator material.
And to quote my favourite adage again, that chip on each shoulder will keep you level headed enough for the job.<test>
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 11, 2018 14:05

An extension of the above protocol would be with regard to warnings. They too could remain for one year. In the event of another indiscretion which in of itself would normally require a warning then a penalty point should be issued. The penalty point would be treated as absorbing the earlier warning and the warning removed.

Strictly speaking, a rule violation should get at least a penalty point. However, we all have 'bad hair days' and I reckon it would be a bit harsh on someone who had an otherwise blemish-free record for a number of years.

It could be said that we are getting overly complicated but we are not into rocket science yet. What I am trying to do is create a really fair system.

Some of you might have expected me to favor a harsh protocol according to my comments earlier but that is not the case. A lot of my comments above were made to draw the Site Admin into this thread. Obviously, I could not say so. coderJeff figured that was what I was doing. <smile>
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 11, 2018 14:13

dodicat wrote:I think marcov was testing you for potential moderator material.

I wonder if I passed.
And to quote my favorite adage again, that chip on each shoulder will keep you level headed enough for the job.<test>

Actually I could do with a chip in my right knee - they may help me walk straight.

Did I pass?
marcov
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Re: Resignation

Postby marcov » Nov 11, 2018 14:25

deltarho[1859] wrote:
dodicat wrote:I think marcov was testing you for potential moderator material.

I wonder if I passed.


People that start public threads to complain about other people (instead of taking it up with a moderator privately) are generally not considered fit for moderation duties in the first place. Discretion is a primary requirement.

And as to policies: moderators need a free hand. Constrict them too much and the sane people don't want the thankless job with red tape everywhere, and there is a chance that the moderator candidate are either inexperience or powerhungry dilettantes that will live with the rules to exercise power.

So in case the previous sarcastic message didn't bring it across: no, I don't think such policies are constructive. It only gives leeway to second guess moderator action with the rules in hand, and doesn't improve much in practice.

If you want to democratize moderators, hold biannual elections or so (but that is the forum owners decision, not the users').
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 11, 2018 14:54

marcov wrote:instead of taking it up with a moderator privately

I have been around long enough to know that sometimes we have to go public.

I may be wrong but I have this feeling that in the event of an election marcov will not vote for me. <laugh>
moderators need a free hand

Absolutely not.
powerhungry dilettantes that will live with the rules to exercise power.

That is another reason for two moderators to consider issuing penalty points.

The protocol put forward was not off the top of my head - I did think it through. I have found two weaknesses so far but I reckon that the likelihood of them becoming an issue would be exceptionally small.
St_W
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Re: Resignation

Postby St_W » Nov 11, 2018 17:35

marcov wrote:Constrict them too much [...] and there is a chance that the moderator candidate are either inexperience or powerhungry dilettantes that will live with the rules to exercise power.
There's probably an even higher change of misuse of priviledge if there are no rules and they can basically do what they want.
marcov wrote:If you want to democratize moderators, hold biannual elections or so.
I think that was already mentioned will probably be done in any case - independent of whether the elected moderators have to obey rules or not.

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