Resignation

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macko17
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Re: Resignation

Postby macko17 » Nov 05, 2018 4:31

It's fun how on literally every forum, the people who post introductory "Hi this is my first post, I hope I'll be productive here" type things generally don't ever make any posts other than that one, while the people who post "I'm not ever posting here again because I hate things about this place" never stop posting or ever actually leave.

Making empty threats does more damage to your credibiilty than any randomer saying they don't trust you. Because now if you don't leave, you prove them right that you are indeed an untrustworthy blowhard. Especially when the time between you 'leaving' and your next post was less than two hours.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 05, 2018 5:09

My last post at MsWs was at midnight Nov 4. dafhi and dodicat have posted code since then which I have looked at. With the normal course of events, I would have continued to contribute to that thread but I have not because I have resigned.

The only thread that I have posted in since my resignation is this one, my resignation thread, responding to members offering kind words and so on. If you resigned from your company would you ignore your ex-colleagues if you met them in the street at a later date? Eventually, this thread will disappear into the ether. However, if someone posted in this thread in two or three weeks time and wished me well I would respond to that. It would have been bad manners for me to simply resign and not respond to any member posting after me.

If you had half a brain cell, macko17, you would have spotted this.

May I take this opportunity to thank you for the four posts you have made since joining the forum on Jun 4, 2017 which is pretty close to "don't ever make any posts other than that one". I, on the other hand, have made a few more, 1627, since I joined on 2 Jan, 2017.

If you respond to this post I will take JJ2007's advice and ignore it. Have a nice day.
jj2007
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Re: Resignation

Postby jj2007 » Nov 05, 2018 8:08

deltarho[1859] wrote:May I take this opportunity to thank you for the four posts you have made since joining the forum on Jun 4, 2017 which is pretty close to "don't ever make any posts other than that one".
Right. Don't waste your precious time, David ;-)
deltarho[1859]
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Location: UK

Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 05, 2018 9:04

jj2007 wrote:Right. Don't waste your precious time, David ;-)

Thanks, Jochen.

macko17 fits the profile of a troll so has blown it on his fourth post. A lot of members will be giving him a wide berth in the future.
leopardpm
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Re: Resignation

Postby leopardpm » Nov 06, 2018 20:01

...I would keep in mind the good with the bad. Yes, I can remember a few times that Mr. Swiss 'irritated' me or his replies to others I deemed somewhat inappropriate... but... in the same vein... He can be helpful in ways also. He has insights that others may not, and a capable programmer as well. I don't quite remember anything in particular that he actually posted/contributed as far as a 'project', but I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Even so, I appreciate his feedback - and I can take it or leave it as I may...as well as anything typed that might be annoying....
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 08, 2018 0:54

@leopardpm

If I took a 'pop' at you or your code, not everytime that you posted, but enough times then at some point you would get fed up.

There are some members of this forum who welcome members from PowerBASIC. However, there are some members of this forum who do not welcome members from PowerBASIC and find it difficult keeping their feelings under wraps.

Now it also quite common when someone is losing an argument for them to resort to using derogatory or inflammatory remarks. Unfortunately, the member under attack is left to defend themselves without any support from Admin. This maybe forum policy but we still have someone breaking the forum rules and nothing is been done about it.

There is only one conclusion which can be drawn here: Admin as weak as dishwater.

Oh, they have enough on their plate I hear some cry. I am sure that there are a lot of good reasons but when an individual is cited many times as behaving badly then it is irresponsible for Admin to look the other way.

This is what D.J.Peters wrote nearly a year ago:
FreeBASIC is a boat without a captain.
BASIC is for beginners and this is OK
but too much idiots and trolls here
and the moderators are blind or sleeping.

How ever 12 years are enough.

goodbye !

Even if every troll at this forum suddenly decided to go elsewhere we would still have an Admin as weak as dishwater.
sancho3
Posts: 358
Joined: Sep 30, 2017 3:22

Re: Resignation

Postby sancho3 » Nov 08, 2018 5:07

"there are some members of this forum who do not welcome members from PowerBASIC"
I scour this forum often. I have not seen this. I haven't even seen this from Mr. Swiss.
I have seen a fair amount of "how do I convert this power basic code..." posts and they are answered without prejudice.

There are so few troll type postings that I can't understand where this claim comes from.

I read the thread which precipitated this thread and frankly, what was said was a little rude, but not worthy of this nuclear strike.
An urban dwelling citizen of any country will encounter far more rudeness in a single trip to the market.
And now to spread the fallout onto the admin seems like just lashing out.
What would you have done as the admin? Would banning Mr.Swiss make it all better?

Take a break, take a few deep breaths and carry on.
You can adequately defend yourself from Mr. Swiss without the need for this drama.
And if you are at a loss for how, just look at how everyone else has handled him at some point in the past.

This forum is administered just fine.
Munair
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Re: Resignation

Postby Munair » Nov 08, 2018 7:45

sancho3 wrote:This forum is administered just fine.

I second that.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 08, 2018 8:58

When PowerBASIC's Bob Zale died six years ago the PowerBASIC forum found itself without an administrator for a while and suffered from that. Bob Zale ruled PowerBASIC with an iron fist. The PowerBASIC compiler was Bob's baby and woe betide anyone who criticized it. It could be said that my behavior is not dissimilar to Bob Zale's in that I took great exception to my code being described as not trusted when I put a lot of effort into trying to make sure that it was; especially the cryptographic code.

A couple of administrators came and went who were quite useless. The forum suffered. Vivian Zale invited a member, Gary Beene, to take over the reins. Gary was a different kettle of fish. He is a very good programmer and particularly well liked. However, Gary would not tolerate any nonsense from members. The guy I mentioned earlier who got his third ban, over five months ago, got a 90-day suspension from Gary. Gary admitted to me a few months ago that was his biggest mistake - he should have banned the offender for life. The lesson here is trolls should not be suspended temporarily but for good.

After a few years, Gary stood down. He was on his own and it got a bit much for him. The next administrator was also a member. He too is a great programmer but was a weak administrator. The forum suffered. Drake Software bought PowerBASIC and made it clear that they would not tolerate misbehavior. The guy Gary suspended temporarily got banned again and it looks like this time it is for good.

I believe the suspended guy thought that he was indispensable. He got that wrong. The forum did not collapse without him and it is undoubtedly a better place without him.

So, in the six years since Bob Zale's death, the forum suffered every time the admin was weak and benefitted every time the admin was strong. To my mind, that should be obvious and not the result of observation.
sancho3 wrote:This forum is administered just fine.

and Munair has just seconded that.

I am sorry guys but I disagree.

St_W wrote "I fear that a ban or similar actions won't be done simply because there's nearly no moderation"

I apologize to CoderJeff by mentioning that he said as much in his email to me.

What a sorry state. This should not be and would not be with a strong admin.

Yes, misbehavior is a rare event but it should not be allowed to be an event. There are rules and they should be administered.

It is as simple as that.

As for MrSwiss, I cannot figure the guy out. A lot of his posts are first class - really first class. However every now and again out comes his acidic tongue and on those occasions, he should be taken to task. I do not believe that he is a troll but he does sometimes behave in a troll like fashion and that needs attention. A short sharp shock such as a 90-day suspension would, to my mind, not come amiss. If that works then we would all benefit. If it does not work then stronger measures should be considered and I regret to say a total ban should not be ruled out. All we are doing here is administrating the rules - it is not rocket science.
marcov
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Re: Resignation

Postby marcov » Nov 08, 2018 9:26

Personally I think ruling the forum with an iron fist, will only yield a harmonious forum of cheerleaders.

You go to a forum for independent content. Dependent/approved content should be in the manual/wiki.

I think the forum was too lenient with Spikowspi, and could be a bit stricter with offtopicness. (and filters are indeed usually useless, so it does matter that such issues are corrected). But that is mostly ancient history and nitpicking, in general the forum moderation is fine. And I say that as a moderator of e.g. the Free Pascal forums.

Temporary bans rarely work, except maybe as a timeout for very young people. People come back, behave a short while and then revert to the old behaviour. The really pathological attention seekers don't even last a week. But a permanent ban is a very harsh measurement, and for that the behaviour must not be just annoying, but totally beyond the pale. I think we did one (non spammer) permanent ban, after 3 temporary failed bans.

Apropos: bye.
Last edited by marcov on Nov 08, 2018 10:30, edited 1 time in total.
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2420
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Location: UK

Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 08, 2018 10:07

marcov wrote:Personally I think ruling the forum with an iron fist, will only yield a harmonious forum of cheerleaders.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Bob Zale banned some members when he should have listened.

Gary Beene did not and Drake Software does not rule with an iron fist. However, both of them had/have an iron fist in a drawer and would use it if needs be.
and for that the behaviour must not be just annoying, but totally beyond the pale.

The guy who got banned from PowerBASIC went beyond the pale on many an occasion. Adam Drake, of Drake Software, joined PowerBASIC as a member one year before I did, in 2003, so was well acquainted with the banned member's antics.
People come back, behave a short while and then revert to the old behavior.

That seems to be the case but we cannot be certain that it will always be true so, to my mind, a temporary ban should be tested.
jj2007
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Re: Resignation

Postby jj2007 » Nov 08, 2018 10:15

deltarho[1859] wrote:I took great exception to my code being described as not trusted when I put a lot of effort into trying to make sure that it was; especially the cryptographic code.
The wording used by MrSwiss was indeed very offensive, and you are perfectly right to flag the issue. But, I repeat myself, don't let him spoil your hobby by taking him too seriously.
As for MrSwiss, I cannot figure the guy out. A lot of his posts are first class - really first class. However every now and again out comes his acidic tongue and on those occasions, he should be taken to task. I do not believe that he is a troll but he does sometimes behave in a troll like fashion and that needs attention. A short sharp shock such as a 90-day suspension would, to my mind, not come amiss
I agree with everything, except that one week would be enough. MrSwiss suffers from the Oberlehrer syndrome; there is a nice description here. People afflicted by this syndrome would for, example jump on, everything that loks like, a typo or commas in the, wrong place and feel obliged to help the por person improving. They can't help it, it's pathological but harmless. Btw I am an expert on the syndrome because I have a light form of it: When I see a new post of MrSwiss, the first thing I check is whether he abused the commas again ;-)
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 08, 2018 10:56

Ha, ha.

jj2007 wrote:Btw I am an expert on the syndrome because I have a light form of it

I am not sure that your having a light form of it is sufficient qualification to diagnose MrSwiss. Whilst I dislike some of MrSwiss' antics that does not disable me from coming to his defence if warranted. Having said that KrautBlog wrote "you cannot argue with Oberlehrer—they are loath to admitting mistakes and always try to have the last word." does ring a bell. <smile>
The wording used by MrSwiss was indeed very offensive, and you are perfectly right to flag the issue. But, I repeat myself, don't let him spoil your hobby by taking him too seriously.

On reflection, I find that I have gone past that and have dug myself into a hole by questioning the strength of admin. Getting MrSwiss to change his ways or change my dealings with him does not seem that difficult compared with getting the admin to change their ways. If anyone came back at me and described me as a PITA then I would offer no defense. Oh, dear.

BTW, I use Grammarly for Firefox and it captures all of my erroneous use or non-use of commas. I was surprised at how often it 'chips in'.
Last edited by deltarho[1859] on Nov 08, 2018 11:08, edited 1 time in total.
jj2007
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Re: Resignation

Postby jj2007 » Nov 08, 2018 11:05

<big smile>
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 08, 2018 11:10

@jj2007

See my BTW addition.

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