Resignation

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deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2003
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 04, 2018 7:32

MrSwiss and I had a bit of a 'set to' recently and he made a statement which I found intolerable and reported it to admin. It seems to me that MrSwiss has been granted impunity which I also find intolerable. I could put MrSwiss on my 'Ignore List', which is currently empty, as I have done previously. Now, whilst that would work for me I believe that Ignore Lists disrupt forums as a whole and I do not want to do that. This puts me in an untenable position of having to resign my forum membership. As a secondary issue, I feel that I must make a stand as I have seen, since joining in January 2017, MrSwiss 'rub more people up the wrong way' than the rest of the forum put together.

For those of you who missed MrSwiss' statement here it is:
This sort of statement is the reason, that I don't trust code of yours.

He then made the cardinal mistake of 'proving' me wrong by using a constant value instead of the result of a floating point calculation.

I told MrSwiss that I had reported his statement to admin and that I would say no more until I got a response. He then immediately came back with:
@deltarho, this must be a joke of yours.

Because, I stayed with it (even if 'sworn in'), by any court of law ...
I simply can't help it, if you can't take the truth.
That's what it is, no more, no less.

Some of you may think that I am being thin-skinned but for someone as pedantic as I am there is no way that I can 'turn the other cheek' at the above. I write code with bugs in them, who doesn't, but for the most part I believe that what I have published here is robust. When publishing cryptographic work I think that authors should go 'the extra mile' and I have always felt a responsibility to do so.

I enjoy programming and I enjoy programming in FreeBASIC and will continue to do just that. I think that I have made some good friends here and I will miss them.

David Roberts
fxm
Posts: 9190
Joined: Apr 22, 2009 12:46
Location: Paris suburbs, FRANCE

Re: Resignation

Postby fxm » Nov 04, 2018 8:51

I also thought about one moment to stop everything when some users told me that I had a little too conservative management (rigorous in my opinion) of the documentation because I opposed their proposals, even saying me preventing the entry of new users.
But I think that all this fades over time, each taking into account the respect of the other to understand his position and his language which often differ by their origin.
Today, I do not regret been stay in the FreeBASIC community.
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2003
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 04, 2018 9:11

fxm wrote:But I think that all this fades over time

I am 71 in December and know that only too well but having my trustworthiness questioned is something which will not fade anytime soon and something which I cannot tolerate. I have seen people having 'a go' at you with regard to the documentation and found it extraordinary because Help files do require rigor.
jj2007
Posts: 1242
Joined: Oct 23, 2016 15:28
Location: Roma, Italia
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Re: Resignation

Postby jj2007 » Nov 04, 2018 9:23

David,

I've watched that thread and wondered if I should post a comment but decided to wait. There's the golden rule 'don't feed the troll', right?

There's another rule: Don't let the troll spoil your pleasure! You are an excellent coder, in fact the only reason why I don't add my 2cts to your stuff is that sometimes it's way over my head. Don't let him decide about your activities. Besides, we need you here, OK?

Jochen
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2003
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 04, 2018 10:02

jj2007 wrote:Don't let him decide about your activities.

That is good advice with regard to dealing with terrorists but not so easy with stalkers. At times I did feel that I was being stalked. However, I am sure that I am not alone. I will put money on it that some members have left for the same reason as me but said nothing - they simply stopped posting. When I stopped posting on a regular basis at PowerBASIC the active membership was over 250. It is now 202 and that is not due to Bob Zale's death, six years ago in two days time, but down to one 'bad apple'. That 'bad apple' was issued his third ban a few months ago. In fact, he has not posted for 160 days and it is thought that this ban may be a lifetime ban. He got away with murder because he is an excellent Windows GUI programmer. However, I took the view that there were quite a few excellent Windows GUI programmers and thought that his departure would not be damaging.

When you add to folk's stuff you add a lot more than 2cts.

Is Jochen German?

David
Provoni
Posts: 322
Joined: Jan 05, 2014 12:33
Location: Belgium

Re: Resignation

Postby Provoni » Nov 04, 2018 10:12

Hey deltarho[1859],

I hope to be as sharp as you when I turn 71! Your work here on random numbers and everything has been prolific. Sad to see you go.
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2003
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 04, 2018 10:27

Provoni wrote:I hope to be as sharp as you when I turn 71!

So do I - I have another month to go yet. <laugh>

Thanks for your kind words.
jj2007
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Location: Roma, Italia
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Re: Resignation

Postby jj2007 » Nov 04, 2018 11:14

deltarho[1859] wrote:Is Jochen German?
Yep, I'm German, but I live in Italy, and I'm not much younger than you are.

The 'bad apples' are all over the place, I tend to kick them out if they are completely useless but tease them with irony if their contributions are overall valuable. Sometimes I wish I could talk to their shrinks. In any case, never ever should we allow them to bully other members, or even make them leave.
dodicat
Posts: 5951
Joined: Jan 10, 2006 20:30
Location: Scotland

Re: Resignation

Postby dodicat » Nov 04, 2018 11:52

Deltarho
fxm gives as good as he gets.
There is a slim chance that OWEN will take him and Paul Doe off to the Philippines for a while.<great>
Your report goes to ADMIN, so that must be counting pine alone?
Now I feel for counting pine (which I find unusual), and Mr Swiss.
How possible is it to communicate with such a diverse audience of argumentative coders seamlessly?
It amazes me how good these folk at are at written English anyway, from those far flung foreign places on this planet.
However sometimes non native English speakers phrase things unconventionally and perhaps don't realise.
At 70 you are able to resign withdraw your resignation at any time, I also have that privilege.
St_W
Posts: 1476
Joined: Feb 11, 2009 14:24
Location: Austria
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Re: Resignation

Postby St_W » Nov 04, 2018 12:11

I know that this is way easier to tell, than actually doing it, but mind that it's only a minority of users. If you look on the positive side, the majority, including myself, value your contributions to this forums and FreeBasic. Your implementations in the area of cryptography often require according knowledge in that area and its mathematic background, which either prevents users from contributing or - on the other hand - generates unqualified answers, if the users lack knowledge, depending on the type of user.
I fear that a ban or similar actions won't be done simply because there's nearly no moderation on this forums and we, its users, are mostly left to settle conflicts ourselves. Unfortunately it's often the same small set of users causing troubles. Yet, I hope that a strong community can handle that.
Finally, I hope that we don't loose you for a longer time and am looking forward to hearing from you soon again :-)
coderJeff
Site Admin
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Re: Resignation

Postby coderJeff » Nov 04, 2018 12:35

deltarho, either you are committed to your work or not. You are in control of what you do next. MrSwiss has rubbed many the wrong way.

St_W, the admins take the reports seriously. There are a few members that are diligent in pointing out the problem posts. Like this topic even, which at the moment could go either way, constructive learning, or endless rant. Is it too much to ask that members conduct themselves civilly, without a grown-ups help?

I try to stay detached from the responses on the forums because otherwise it is emotionally draining. Putting all your effort and free time in to a product only to have one member take no time and no effort to say it is rubbish.
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2003
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 04, 2018 15:36

@dodicat

"Your report goes to ADMIN, so that must be counting pine alone?"

I don't think so because CoderJeff very kindly took take time out to email me.

"However sometimes non native English speakers phrase things unconventionally and perhaps don't realise."

That is true but when someone questions your trustworthiness I don't think there is any mistaking that is exactly what they are doing whether they come from Prague, Moscow, Timbuktu or wherever.

@St_W

"I fear that a ban or similar actions won't be done simply because there's nearly no moderation on this forums ..."

If counting_pine offered me a position as a moderator with HR duties then I would accept it and return. I would contact offending members and on 'three strikes' within a given timescale I would then put a report into counting_pine with recommendations for a suspension along the lines of 90 days, 180 days and 360 days. If counting_pine rejected too high a percentage of my recommendations then I would pack my bags again. With regard to MrSwiss, I would make contact and suggest that we shake hands and start from scratch.

If members were made aware of such a procedure then they may think twice about making disparaging remarks or behaving in a troll like fashion.

@CoderJeff

"Is it too much to ask that members conduct themselves civilly, without a grown-ups help?"

I don't think that it is. Jeremy Heywood who was Head of the Home Civil Service here in the UK sadly died today, aged only 56, after a long battle with cancer. As the tributes came in it became clear that he was exceptionally talented at resolving disputes between Members of Parliament who were involved in very heavy vitriolic conversations. So if that can happen between MPs it can certainly happen between members of a programming forum.

"I try to stay detached from the responses on the forums because otherwise it is emotionally draining."

If I had the authority then I would not find it emotionally draining to kick someone up the 'jacksie' if required. It is a different 'kettle of fish' if you are of the same rank.
adele
Posts: 47
Joined: Jun 13, 2015 19:33

Re: Resignation; Mr. S.

Postby adele » Nov 04, 2018 20:36

Hi Mr. D.,

some weeks ago Mr. S. was absent for a few days.
I missed him. Not himself. But his flames and attacks.
He is my personal "Flame-ing Star" ;-)

The first things I look for when entering this forum are the newest contributions of Mr.S.
They mostly include some few lines that are quite amusing.
Then I write down (offline) a sketch of a reply or comment.
Often, I copy his comments to a collection I internally call "hall of shame".

Two days later the smoke is gone.

The second things I look for when entering this forum are the newest contributions of "trusted coders".
For quite a while there were just a handful, for example D.J. Peters aka Joshy. That changed the days
when a bunch of former PowerBASICists joined the club. Jose Roca, for example. And Deltarho, for example.
Often, I copy their code to a collection I internally call "hall of fame".

Two days later the fire still is burning.

The trusted contributors have one big disadvantage: They are not amusing.
This is why I don´t vote for the "Death of a Clown".
Or, from "The Woall" by Ping Vloid: "Hey, teachers, leave our debs alone".
Come on, Mr.D., and enjoy the show! You too can stay on the "Bright Side of Life!".

Adi


PS: Was schert´s die deutsche Eiche, wenn sich die Sau an ihr kratzt. ( idiomatic, I don´t know how to
convert it to English)
St_W
Posts: 1476
Joined: Feb 11, 2009 14:24
Location: Austria
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Re: Resignation

Postby St_W » Nov 04, 2018 20:47

coderJeff wrote:[...] the admins take the reports seriously. There are a few members that are diligent in pointing out the problem posts. Like this topic even, which at the moment could go either way, constructive learning, or endless rant. Is it too much to ask that members conduct themselves civilly, without a grown-ups help?
I just wanted to note that there's rarely a (publically visible) action of moderation - just as matter of fact, not judging in any way. For example, posts are edited or deleted very very rarely and I can't remember that a user had been banned at all. IMHO we have civilised discussions in practically all cases without needing any moderation, it's just a tiny minority of cases where some mediation would help avoiding situations like this.

@adele: I'm not the fun guy for sure, but I agree that some fun make the conversations more vivid. I just do not think that making fun needs insults or offensive speech. At least one needs to dose it very carefully (and that's difficult for non english natives ...)
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 2003
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Resignation

Postby deltarho[1859] » Nov 04, 2018 23:04

@adele

That was one of the best posts that I have ever read.

What a cracker.

Thank you.

The German phrase translates to "you may try, but you will never get to me". In the UK, and perhaps elsewhere, we have "sticks and stones may break my bones, (but words can never hurt me)". I remember my father quoting that several times when I was young.

@St_W

In the two years that I have been a member here, I have noticed that it is, for the most part, more civilized than the PowerBASIC forum. It is usually OK but I have seen some horrendous flame wars over there over the years.

The strange thing is that every forum that I have been a member of has had one outstanding individual who spends a disproportionate amount of time upsetting other members. A bit like every galaxy spins around a massive black hole. We need our black hole but we don't need ....

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