"A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

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BasicCoder2
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby BasicCoder2 » Oct 12, 2018 21:42

badidea wrote:BasicCoder2 (Will you try?)

As I wrote earlier it all comes down to having an idea, based on the theme, that is worth coding.
What I have been doing is giving it some deep thought.
Should any ideas come to mind I will post them for comment and suggestions.
grindstone
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby grindstone » Oct 13, 2018 13:43

Lachie Dazdarian wrote:I'm not sure what do you mean exactly, grindstone, but reskining an older finished or close to finished work will be heavily penalized during scoring. I am expecting people to be open about that, at minimum. Using old code and engines is allowed.
What I mean is the flight operator simulation I'm working at since more than 2 years (with breaks, of course). I've already published some playable previews
(https://www.freebasic-portal.de/projekte/ber-approach-105.html
http://users.freebasic-portal.de/grindstone/Codes/BER%20Approach/BERapproach.7z),
but it's still under construction.
BasicCoder2
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby BasicCoder2 » Oct 14, 2018 6:10

Lachie Dazdarian wrote,
"You know, like a FreeBASIC horse fighting C++ robots."


That is kind of an obvious thought but how do we draw the animated horse?
Perhaps all the agents can be robots (easier to draw) with the language's logo so we know which is which?
Maybe start the game with the QBASIC robot with some of the other species at the time such as early versions of C, C++, Pascal perhaps representing their "personalities" and power in their robot's attributes and design. Then along comes Wizard Victor who transforms and frees QB robot from its DOS world into a new FB robot that can take on the worlds of MSWindows and Linux. As the game progresses other newer robots arrive (python, javascript whatever) with their own powers. Other wizards come in to give the FB robot extra powers to compete (OOP, access to C libraries).
Perhaps to personalise it more give ownership of the robots to programmers, some of which discarded their PB robots for the FB version :)

Or does all that sound a bit silly?

The other important part of course would be implementing all the key elements of a playable game.

My other thought was using the language logos in some kind of tile or card game although how that would reflect the history of FreeBASIC wasn't clear to me.

It seems to me we have to throw ideas out there to stimulate ideas in others.
Last edited by BasicCoder2 on Oct 16, 2018 17:06, edited 1 time in total.
badidea
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby badidea » Oct 14, 2018 10:41

BasicCoder2 wrote:That is kind of an obvious thought but how do we draw the animated horse?

Maybe these horse sprites fit with your robots :-)
https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/21/22502.png
You can draw codefJeff in front of it, dragging this horse forwards. :-)
paul doe
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby paul doe » Oct 14, 2018 12:47

BasicCoder2 wrote:Lachie Dazdarian wrote,
"You know, like a FreeBASIC horse fighting C++ robots."


That is kind of an obvious thought but how do we draw the animated horse?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping
Very popular in the late 80s and early 90s. Prince of Persia, Karateka, Another World and Flashback are some examples of what you can do with the technique.
BasicCoder2 wrote:Or does all that sound a bit silly?

Sounds perfectly fitted to the theme for me. How it will fit into the gameplay is another question =D
BasicCoder2
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby BasicCoder2 » Oct 14, 2018 20:07

@paul doe,
How many, if any, of those who have put their hands up for the competition can do that? Get actors or horses to act out the moves to "trace".

You can be the greatest programmer in the world and yet not be able to write a computer game, beyond the actual game engine itself, by yourself, because that is a separate skill. Art, animation, story, game play, sound, music. Unless it is a simple game like Tetris although that still requires coming up with a novel idea.

Those using FreeBASIC today seem not to be interested in writing games unlike the early days of FreeBASIC. This competition seems to be about old FB game writers wanting to give FB its last hooray?

For me personally the early days was about using FB as a simpler language than C++ for controlling hardware. However out of curiosity I have played about with simple platform and tile game mechanics and probably could write and even provide simple graphics for such a game although it would be a first to actually complete one. The real killer is making it fun and maybe amusing to play and not just some clone of other games but using different characters? And then there is sticking to the theme.

@badidea,
As for the horse on wheels suggestion. It doesn't look like the FreeBASIC logo and would look out of place if every other language was just represented as a robot of some kind. And how would coderJeff pulling it fit into a game play? No I think those who have contributed to the language itself should be Wizards in this scenario as that fits in better I think for a character improving itself over time as I have seen in other such role playing adventure/quest games.
paul doe
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby paul doe » Oct 14, 2018 20:49

BasicCoder2 wrote:@paul doe,
How many, if any, of those who have put their hands up for the competition can do that? Get actors or horses to act out the moves to "trace".

Those that are intelligent (you can use a clip that you can download from internet, you know) or creative (I used my daughter for another project, unrelated to FB). Jordan Mechner (the creator of Prince of Persia) was a teenager that was about to end high school when he created it (he used his brother, acting in a park, for the game character sprites). All it takes is a little creative thinking. Incidentally, this is also needed for coding something, which might come as a shocker for you.
BasicCoder2 wrote:You can be the greatest programmer in the world and yet not be able to write a computer game, beyond the actual game engine itself, by yourself, because that is a separate skill. Art, animation, story, game play, sound, music. Unless it is a simple game like Tetris although that still requires coming up with a novel idea.

What makes you think that I'm not well aware of this?
BasicCoder2 wrote:Those using FreeBASIC today seem not to be interested in writing games unlike the early days of FreeBASIC. This competition seems to be about old FB game writers wanting to give FB its last hooray?

Lachie Dazdarian wrote:The other group are those who still plan to continue to use FreeBASIC, and this is their opportunity to develop a game expressing their love and appreciation for the compiler. And also a chance to win 300 $.

See here.
BasicCoder2 wrote:For me personally the early days was about using FB as a simpler language than C++ for controlling hardware. However out of curiosity I have played about with simple platform and tile game mechanics and probably could write and even provide simple graphics for such a game although it would be a first to actually complete one. The real killer is making it fun and maybe amusing to play and not just some clone of other games but using different characters? And then there is sticking to the theme.

To create a good game, you need a thorough understanding of the mechanics involved in the genre you've chosen (which implies playing a lot of games in that genre; if you're not willing to do this, don't even bother). Creativity is not about novelty, but about using existing tools in novel ways to produce something different. This is a timeless resource for me that illustrates that point:

The Three Hundred Mechanics
badidea
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 250 $ 1st prize

Postby badidea » Oct 14, 2018 21:00

BasicCoder2 wrote:How many, if any, of those who have put their hands up for the competition can do that? Get actors or horses to act out the moves to "trace".

I have a horse running around in my back garden right now. Just having trouble finding enough pink glitter paint for it :-)

My planned contribution will indeed have 'tetris' blocks in it. I do have ideas for how to apply the 'freebasic' theme to it, but that will remain a secret for now. Spent most time until now reworking the structure of the program. That part almost done I think, then I can start implementing the ideas and yes, working on some graphics, animations and sound. Luckily there is still some time.
Lachie Dazdarian
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

Postby Lachie Dazdarian » Oct 14, 2018 21:04

I'm upping the first prize to 300 USD, and second to 150 USD.

Thanks to all for sharing their ideas and concepts.

grindstone, I don't see a problem with you using that engine. But I'm curious how you can combine it with the competition theme.

Pitto, your stuff looks awesome already. But one weird thing, your main villain looks like a dead ringer of v1ctor. I know him on Facebook. Really funny.

dodicat, if I'm the target, go ahead. I have a thick skin.

BasicCoder2, your idea sounds very cool. Hope you can flesh it out. Also, don't be so demoralized with what can be done in such a short time. I think all previous FBGD competitions were shorter, and they resulted with numerous impressive games in my opinion, that I've deeply enjoyed and played for hours. I always like to point out Witchcraft Adventure as something exceptional. I think 3 months is enough time for rapid prototyping and general quick dev muscles not to be a deal breaker, like you would have in the case of those 48 hours game dev jams. What I think it's important, in my opinion, is to take at least one day to carefully work out the scope of the game and all that needs to be done to complete it. I especially think that games involving a lot of story, dialogue, multiple paths and similar features, might be unrewarding to attempt in these sorts of competitions, unless if it's an IF or something like that where all the dev time can be dedicated to mostly that aspect of the game. But really, take the time and look at all the past FBGD competitions' winning entries and at least runner ups to get a feeling of what can be done effectively in two months: http://games.freebasic.net/competitions.php

paul doe, I really don't see a reason to break a tradition here, since all the past FBGD competitions were FB coding competitions. With this competition I'll come close if not break 1000 USD of my own money I invested to promoted and encourage FB game dev, and I never seen anyone in QB64 with the same resolution to do the same. Even in the form of game reviews, I think that community lagged with submissions to my BASIC Gaming ezine. Now, I haven't been in that community for a long time, maybe they have their competitions and ezines now, in that case they don't need me. If they are still lacking people there popularizing QB64 game dev, I just don't see why should I be doing that for them, never being a QB64 user. I think I did enough and tried enough with my BASIC Gaming ezine.

This is for FreeBASIC folks.
paul doe
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

Postby paul doe » Oct 14, 2018 21:35

Lachie Dazdarian wrote:...This is for FreeBASIC folks.

That's ok, it was just a suggestion. Not that you liked QB64 much, anyways ;)
BasicCoder2
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

Postby BasicCoder2 » Oct 14, 2018 21:48

@paul doe,

I have used video to capture and trace a simple walking action as was used in this demo,
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22633
Image
However I was talking about lots of animations of a freeBasic horse. Walking, running, jumping and so on ...
The art style also needs to be consistent to look good and I haven't found free clipart that covers it all such as in this case many animations of a FB horse. Real life is a good source of images. Take pictures of the objects and then reduce their color set.

(which implies playing a lot of games in that genre; if you're not willing to do this, don't even bother).

The first game programmers didn't have that luxury. However I have seen and tried enough games to have a good idea what is involved.

Creativity is not about novelty, but about using existing tools in novel ways to produce something different.

For me I see it as a novel twist on previous ideas. Tetris didn't come out of the blue. Often it is pulling together ideas from different sources thus my suggestion we throw out ideas to stimulate ideas in others that may be struggling to come up with a game plan. So if you have any ideas on implementing this theme we are all ears.
paul doe
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

Postby paul doe » Oct 14, 2018 22:45

BasicCoder2 wrote:I have used video to capture and trace a simple walking action as was used in this demo,
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22633

Wow, looks nice. I hadn't seen that one.
BasicCoder2 wrote:However I was talking about lots of animations of a freeBasic horse. Walking, running, jumping and so on ...

There's lots of those videos on YouTube. Just seek one that looks good.
BasicCoder2 wrote:The first game programmers didn't have that luxury. However I have seen and tried enough games to have a good idea what is involved.

But we aren't the first game programmers, thank goodness. We have lots of ideas and concepts to draw from.
BasicCoder2 wrote:For me I see it as a novel twist on previous ideas.

Which is what I said.
BasicCoder2 wrote:So if you have any ideas on implementing this theme we are all ears.

I have, but I don't want to share them.

If you're out on ideas, try something like this: http://writingexercises.co.uk/plotgenerator.php. Now, I'm pretty sure that you know how this works. I even provided some code you can customize and use for this kind of thing (in the 'FreeBasic Community Produced Game' thread, remember?). We used it to generate game titles, but you can customize it to output the sort of thing that the website produces. Look at Pitto's example a few posts before, that's the kind of output the code should generate.
Pritchard
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

Postby Pritchard » Oct 15, 2018 4:19

BasicCoder2: I think you overthink things just a bit and maybe let that get in the way of actually doing things. Don't let any inhibitions or doubt stop you. I believe in you.

So what if all you code is Tetris? At least you will have made something. At least it will have been your Tetris. Maybe a Tetris with horses... :) FB Tetris!

Listen not to those who say, "Neigh!" but instead to those who say, "Hay!"
BasicCoder2
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

Postby BasicCoder2 » Oct 15, 2018 5:12

Pritchard wrote:BasicCoder2:So what if all you code is Tetris?

It was badidea that said his game would have Tetris blocks in it not me.
All I pointed out was that Tetris is an example of an easy simple program to code but also a very clever idea for a fun game. In other words the hard bit was the idea the easy bit was the code. In other games it is the coding not the idea that is hard or time consuming.
D.J.Peters
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Re: "A Love Letter To FreeBASIC" Game Dev Competition (Oct 2018 – Jan 2019), 300 $ 1st prize

Postby D.J.Peters » Oct 15, 2018 5:17

Lachie Dazdarian wrote:I think 3 months is enough time ...
I'm very busy I hope I can start coding around at 20 December. I hope three weeks 12 hours a day are enough to get a "funky" playable result.

Good luck us all FreeBASIC lovers :-)

Joshy

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