my best effort

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owen
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my best effort

Postby owen » Sep 27, 2018 16:48

as some of you may know i set up an office in the philippines for the fbcad project. i hope to have 15 people in my employ soon. currently only 5 are on the payrol administering the effort. is this a for profit venture? yes. why? it is a way for then them to escape poverty (i hope). how, well... i can only say, it's work in progress and will be funded by me personally for a min of 1 year. deriving any sort or revenue is not expected for at least 6 months.

my goal is to continue the development of fbcad (currently called fbcadcam) which is and always will be a work in progress FreeBasic.net project.

my goal is not to make fbcadcam the best darn cad cam software out there. it will only be 2d and not 3d because that is beyond the scope of my intentions which are to use fbcadcam as a teaching tool. a mechanism to teach computer programming and of course FB. it can also be a mechanism for robotics as we add cam functionality.

i will have 8 laptops being used for training purposes. currently we have purchased 5 laptops as of the posting and will get more soon. why 8? well it's cuz that's how many students i recon we can fit in this office on any given day. on each laptop will be FBC, Fbedit, fbcadcam and skype (skype user names will be specific to each lap top which i will announce in the near future if'n ya all might want to help tutor) other laptops will be used for training purposes by the teachers in the office.
note: for this project it is not intended to be mechanism to teach the world FB but rather a way for the world to teach only those who physically come to study in the office... so as to be able to help those in this specific area of the philippines... if successful then can be replicated in other areas but if and only if administered physically by accountable, trust worthy, good intention, understanding partners.

why am i splaining all this 2 u's?
well it's cuz i'm just a truck driver with a crazy imagination:
who discovered FB in 2006 or prior i can't remember
that created an FB project called fbcad inspired by a fella out of africa who was bragging about his copy rotate LISP routine...
....
actually it cuz i'm asking them to join the FB forum. instructing them to look at what has been posted first before they ask the community for help.
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Sep 27, 2018 17:17

here's some more details worth mentioning in case the project succeeds to the point it can be replicated :
fbcadcam is a legally register company in the philippines.
taxes, medicare and social security is paid by fbcadcam for all employees and interns (students).
compensation for interns is set at the minimum city rate although only provisional rate is required by law which means interns get paid more to study here so they don't have to travel to the city areas.
free meals and travel allowances are provided.
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Sep 27, 2018 17:36

i will be bringing in some contracted help for this project. i have one fella coming over from manila to teach for 3 days. if you are in the philippines and know how to code in FB and would like to help please contact me.
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Sep 27, 2018 18:07

what do i mean when i say it is a way for then them to escape poverty.
i thought i should clarify this because it is not meant in a demeaning way.

i use the term "escape poverty" with the intention to convey "economic fairness" and/or "fairer living standards" and/or "let's do something to help those who we can because we can"

it's just an idea of compassion...
paul doe
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Re: my best effort

Postby paul doe » Sep 27, 2018 19:28

owen wrote:...
well it's cuz i'm just a truck driver with a crazy imagination:
...

Hahaha! I wish there were more 'crazy' people like you; it's all it takes to make this world a little bit better.
owen wrote:i will be bringing in some contracted help for this project. i have one fella coming over from manila to teach for 3 days. if you are in the philippines and know how to code in FB and would like to help please contact me.

I'd love to help, but I don't live in the Philippines. But, do you remember who does? And knows FreeBasic? And is almost universally loved by all? And, unless he's the fella you're talking about, will also love to lend in a hand? ;)
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Sep 27, 2018 23:26

yes i remember who lives in the PI and what a day that will be if he will make an appearance. now the kids in the office wouldn't be able to appreciate it as much as some of us cuz they are new to programming all together. naturally i'll make a big deal about it and be sharing pictures. so the fella in manila is not one in the same as mr. cebu. actually manila is new to FB and is not even an FB forum member. however he was able to pick up FB in a week or two and was quite capable as demonstrated in some of the work he was doing for me on the fltk implementation.
BasicCoder2
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Re: my best effort

Postby BasicCoder2 » Sep 27, 2018 23:27

It is unclear to me how you make a profit? Is fbcadcam being used commercially?
Teaching is an art and a science in itself. Just because someone can program doesn't qualify them to teach it.
I am not sure how a single program can be used to teach programming?

As regards poverty I have come to the conclusion it is a lack of ownership not simply a lack of a paying job.
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Sep 28, 2018 0:12

profit / revenue is unclear to me too. i'm totally winging it. however i'm confident i'll figure something out in short order.

fbcadcam will always be open source and free for all. i seriously doubt it would ever be used commercially but it might be used by some individuals.

teaching is... i agree

the interns will write many programs including fbcadcam-macro scripts way before they will be able to contribute to the source code of fbcadcam.bas and fbcadcam-macro.bas
they will be making simple games and any other kind of program in the interim as a way to learn how to code in FB. and when they're ready perhaps they will begin making their own version of fbcadcam which is not a bad idea because my existing code is not well thought out.

poverty is... hey that's a good idea to keep in mind. i'll encourage an employee own company is the goal but it's too early in the game to talk about a company without a product.
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Sep 28, 2018 23:36

i have seen a certain amount of opinion regarding what is and what is not the correct way of going about something.
such as to oop or not to oop or the correct way to teach and/or code etc...

so i wanted to make a statement, a declaration if you will.

As a rule of thumb "do not take one out without first putting one in"
And if one chooses to ignore this basic principal then one ends up drinking warm beer.

My observation is that warm beer ain't that bad (incorrect) and i'm speaking from experience if'n ya all know what i mean.

One learns from experiences (sometimes). the realization of a mistake or better solution, the light bulb turning on effect, is part of the experience ya know.
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Oct 02, 2018 17:26

check out https://www.fbcadcam.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20
here a new programmer is trying to learn:
he is using fbcadcam's macro function to programmatically draw a car.
i say good job then attempt to inspire him to keep learning (add some lug nuts to the wheels)
i note: he missuses the circle command
he reads the forum post (which by the way the FB forum is or has been my greatest source of learning about coding. ps i am still a newbie)
he learns from his mistake
and is pointed in the direction of the FB wiki
hopefully a light will come on soon and before you know the kid will be off and running.
naturally after he adds several painstakingly positioned circles to represent the lug nuts, i will reveal the FOR NEXT loop along with Cos and Sin.
Even though I had tried to show him as seen in his previous (star) macro... so maybe he will see it... and then... etc...
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Oct 02, 2018 18:28

Teaching is an art and a science in itself.

and also... a matter of patience. can't image how you all have been able to put up with me this long.

Just because someone can program doesn't qualify them to teach it.

too true but to that i add...
programmers can share what they know, how they may. (correct or otherwise)

my attitude is that I do not qualify. i do not meet the standards, etc....
but i don't care about certifications. i aint got no stink'n papers man and i aint handing any out either.
burn the papers (credentials) i say. burn them all.
freedom is destandardization from man's world.
freedom is much more then man can imagine.
BasicCoder2
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Re: my best effort

Postby BasicCoder2 » Oct 02, 2018 21:17

I think there is a danger in ad hoc learning.
Also I don't believe everyone is cut out for programming, or as they like to call it today, coding.
I don't know how you learnt to program but for me it was from books written mostly by professionals.
I don't know the credentials of this author but if I was going to teach programming using FreeBasic I would use a beginners book on the subject to make sure the fundamentals of any programming language were covered step by step.
http://www.frankticfreebasic.com/
Reaching the level of a professional (paid) programmer is very different from the hobby amateur stuff I do.
caseih
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Re: my best effort

Postby caseih » Oct 02, 2018 21:37

I got my BS degree in computer science. I was never taught to code in CS at all. They just expected that we already knew how to code (coding used to always be learned in an ad-hoc manner by enthusiastic nerds), and for my class at least, we all did. Instead they were teaching us how to "program," or in other words solve problems with code. As the classes progressed, we were thrown different languages to work in, and it was expected we'd pick them up and become proficient in a couple of weeks. The purpose of CS was to teach us how to think about problems, how to analyze them, and how to come up with effective solutions to those problems that could be executed in our lifetime. The skills they were trying to teach apply to programming in any language. We spent a lot of time learning about data structures. How to implement them, how to use them, and how to analyze the cost (runtime, memory) of using them. This is stuff I would never have learned on my own. Different kind of tree structures, types of lists, hash tables, etc. Even if the language I use every day provides these kinds of things as part of the language proper, it's useful to know how and when to use these data structures. We of course also learned about algorithms, how they work, and how they scale. Also we spent a great deal of time learning how to classify a problem's complexity, and about big-O notation. This one is a huge deal for all programmers. Quite often we're asking to solve impossible problems (NP complete problems), things that google seems to solve all the time (it's magic). As we move into the big data era, this sort of problem solving is becoming more and more demanded of programmers, and it needs special tools (heuristics, massively parallel processing, etc). Brute force just doesn't work here. At all. Ad hoc learning tends towards brute force approaches because they are obvious. The needed heuristics are often simple and beautiful, but not obvious at first. There's a reason computer science has been working on these problems for a hundred years.

There are many more things that ad-hoc learning is likely to miss, like parsing grammars, relational algebra, etc.

That said, computer science as a college discipline has always had identity problems. Is it a form of engineering? Math? Statistics? IT? There's the old saying that any discipline with "science" in the name isn't a science. Also students pursuing it have change. No longer can the uni expect that students already know how to code. Most now expect the unit to teach them coding and hand them high-paying jobs. It's a real dilemma for unis.

Ad hoc learning is a lot of fun, though! There are enough online resources now that someone can learn everything I learned in uni just by browsing wikipedia. So I'm of a dual mind on this. I think what Owen is doing is great. I don't agree, however, that throwing away formal learning approaches is a good idea. It's not always freedom. In fact it can be opposite (brute forcing an NP complete problem, for example!).
BasicCoder2
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Re: my best effort

Postby BasicCoder2 » Oct 02, 2018 22:15

In an abstract sense I see "programming" as designing a machine to do something. It is a case of "wiring up" the components of a general purpose computer. It can be "wired up" as tool for solving engineering, maths or statistical problems. It can be wired up as a simple calculator which is a nice simple beginner machine to build (program). But ultimately what kind of machine you can "wire up" via programming is limited by what you know already. If you aren't an engineer, mathematician or statistician you aren't going to be able to use the machine for those purposes.
owen
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Re: my best effort

Postby owen » Oct 02, 2018 22:38

I think there is a danger in ad hoc learning.


Years ago I decided to call myself a philosophical engineer. While more then a 1000 feet below somewhere in the pacific on a submarine I saw myself atop a mountain peak with my hands stretched out announcing my (bs) degree for all to hear. Then a leak was sprung. the sound burst all ear drums. grown men were found useless where they stood, sobbing so they were likely to drown in their own tears. I said fear not for this is nothing in comparison to what will happen if kids learn how to program in an ad hoc manner.

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