What happened to the code of conduct thread?

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speedfixer
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What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby speedfixer » Dec 06, 2017 15:32

It is not visible to me.
MrSwiss
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby MrSwiss » Dec 06, 2017 17:30

speedfixer wrote:It is not visible to me.
It was deleted yesterday (by a moderator, admin), together with a second thread
of BasicCoder2 (he explicitly asked for it, by: "changing the title" to that effect).

Please, mark this thread as: [solved]
speedfixer
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby speedfixer » Dec 06, 2017 18:42

I was the first to suggest that the thread should be removed.
[edit]: The thread removed that I am discussing below is the 'Making FB ...' thread, not the code of conduct thread.


Now I am sorry.

I believe in free speech. Even when it clearly doesn't satisfy expectations, please someone's sensibilities, serve the intent of the venue (this forum, for example.)

I would NEVER accept showing someone disrespect - unless they worked VERY hard to earn that disrespect. I don't think I saw any posting in those threads that would be considered disrespectful. Repeated attempts at hijacking a thread - that is disrespectful. THAT person should be warned, then banned. Offensive personal remarks - immediate ban. Still, up to the moderator. I DID feel it no longer served any positive purpose for FB. But how many threads are there in the forums that would fit this description?

I accept that people sometimes speak out hastily and wish to retract their ill-timed or poorly contemplated remarks. And - then wish to erase the evidence of their faux pas.

They should be able to do that - when it is only their thread.

These are public forums. Many people contribute - some with great effort and much study before they post anything.

Were this a 2 or 3 page, silly or going nowhere, unsubstantial trivial thread - no problem. Delete it.
At my last look, there were 30 pages with far more posts by others than the op. MANY people were reading it; MANY people were interested in it. I kinda think many more people would have considered that they were a part of that thread, not just the op.

I got a notice of new postings last night. I WANTED to read what others have to say. Sad, but I waited until I got out of bed this morning.

This - and all - forums are NOT a democracy. They exist for a purpose for the board owner, at the management discretion of the moderator. I accept that.

MY suggestion was to put this particular thread into a new garbage pit subforum that would preserve it for perusal, yet take it out of direct circulation.
Put there, any thread could be locked with searchability and linkability removed. Present, but not up front. Able to be found, but not searchable.

Some people put a lot of thought into their posting.

The moderator just declared that the effort of these people have no value, no meaning.
More than one ethnic group have been treated that way.

How insulting.

I think it will be a day or two before I can consider my feelings about this resolved.
fxm
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby fxm » Dec 06, 2017 19:11

It seems to me that at least 3 recent topics have been removed from the forum.
As a courtesy to all participants on these topics, a message from admin should have at least indicated this and explained why.
srvaldez
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby srvaldez » Dec 06, 2017 19:30

I think it's my fault, it was my comment that pushed BasicCoder2 over the edge.
for what it's worth, I apologize to BasicCoder2 for my insensitive remark and hope that he can forgive me.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby deltarho[1859] » Dec 06, 2017 22:22

fxm wrote:As a courtesy to all participants on these topics, a message from admin should have at least indicated this and explained why.

That was disappointing and inexcusable.
jj2007
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby jj2007 » Dec 07, 2017 0:42

speedfixer wrote:Some people put a lot of thought into their posting.
The moderator just declared that the effort of these people have no value, no meaning.

Right. Same for the "Making FreeBasic appealing to a wider audience" thread, which may not have pleased everybody but was an interesting clash of opinions. Exchanging arguments is important to understand each others' positions. It is OK to delete one or two very offensive posts, though - an act of cleaning up.
BasicCoder2
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby BasicCoder2 » Dec 07, 2017 3:30

speedfixer wrote:It is not visible to me.

In the beginner section under Announcements:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11353

We welcome people to visit and contribute here, but keep in mind the following rules:

- Be civil and polite:
We expect you to show respect for all other members of the community here. We do not want flaming of any sort. Do not insult or flame other forum members.
Additionally, do not write posts that will incite flames from other forum members.
- Keep posts relevant:
Thread topics should be relevant to the FreeBASIC project, or its community. They should go in whichever subforum you think is most appropriate.
Don't deviate from the topic of conversation in a thread. If you have something new to talk about, consider starting a new thread.

In addition, we expect you to follow all the rules set out by our host, phatcode.net, including:
Do not post any copyrighted material that you do not have a license to distribute.
Do not post any excessive vulgarity or "adult material" of any type.
No spamming.
Do not post any malicious scripts or programs.
St_W
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby St_W » Dec 07, 2017 5:32

On one hand I can understand the removal of the threads as they did barely contain any useful information and BasicCoder2 probably wasn't happy with their evolution, although he definitly isn't the person to blame solely, as mentioned earlier.

On the other hand I believe in free speech (as long as it isn't considerably insulting, agressive, unpolite, etc. or violating common law). I didn't see any of these things in the removed threads so there is no real reason to delete the posts except the off-topic issue. I also mentioned that and that it would be better located in an off-topic section, but as we do not have such a section the community discussion section served as replacement in the last years.

Many threads in the past have been at least as non-helpful as the removed threads so it's a bit unclear why those have been removed and others haven't. A notice (or a discussion) would have been nice and appropriate. In general threads have been removed only rarely on the forums, e.g. when political controversies were discussed (e.g. Brexit).

Anyway, technical discussions are one thing, social discussions another - and yet one cannot completely separate the two (although that would be nice IMHO). I'm doubtful whether the removal of discussion threads is beneficial for the community?
marcov
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby marcov » Dec 07, 2017 6:02

I always wondered why the totally offtopic "Squares" thread persisted so long.
coderJeff
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby coderJeff » Dec 07, 2017 9:54

My preference is to leave the threads as they are. People want these threads back, I'll put them back. They are not deleted, only moved. But I can not support a special area for useless threads people shouldn't read. Either they stay as they are, free speech and all, or they get deleted.

A person should think about what they say before they say it and how others might react to it. And, a person should be more tolerant of what others are say regardless of how they say it.
dodicat
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby dodicat » Dec 07, 2017 11:11

marcov wrote:I always wondered why the totally offtopic "Squares" thread persisted so long.


When FreeBASIC was fun, squares (a continuation of circles) was a thread in which to write silly code.
Also
Members discussed things like perpetual motion, wrote silly code to demonstrate machines.
Members discussed prime numbers frequently, tried to get sequences, forged prime factor code.
Members worked on non library big int routines.
Albert managed to get A one million * one million digit multiplication done in a few seconds.
Richard created a big int library from these threads.
Things like speed of light, ether, the universe, encryption ... all discussed

If you check out circles and squares you will see thousands of lines of FreeBASIC code.
Much code, much discussion.
If it all seems a bit silly, then it can be just that.
Many doodles and doodlers.
Many members have contributed code and ideas to squares and circles.

The circles thread got a bit overheated a while back, got itself locked in fact.
No big catastrophe, FreeBASIC was young and vibrant back then.
Water off a duck's back was the locking of circles.

Squares is still alive!
BasicCoder2
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby BasicCoder2 » Dec 07, 2017 17:22

St_W wrote Dec 07, 2017 5:32
On one hand I can understand the removal of the threads as they did barely contain any useful information and BasicCoder2 probably wasn't happy with their evolution, although he definitly isn't the person to blame solely, as mentioned earlier.
===============================================================
I responded in good faith to some expressed concerns about the future of FreeBASIC with my views as to how it might be given a wider appeal but it all went pear shaped. I had a sense of foreboding when dodicat remarked how appalling the thread was and yes it was srvaldez that tipped me over the edge although it was deltarho[1859] who put me there with his comments about how he had to tell me my efforts were so bad he was inclined not to ever read any Community Discussion threads I might start in future. I was told it was a pointless thread so why wouldn't we want it gone? Really I would have thought everyone would have given a sigh of relief the pointless thread was all gone.

@speedfixer wrote:Some people put a lot of thought into their posting.
The moderator just declared that the effort of these people have no value, no meaning.
More than one ethnic group have been treated that way.
================================================================
Sorry for those that felt their posts were dimissed but it was a nightmare for me and I am glad it is gone. I forced coderJeff's hand and now he has given everyone of good faith to express their views on the subject in an orderly fashion. I will not be a part of it anymore as I see I have nothing in common with other forum members apart having used the language.
jj2007
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby jj2007 » Dec 07, 2017 18:03

BasicCoder2 wrote:I will not be a part of it anymore as I see I have nothing in common with other forum members apart having used the language.
That thread was a completely harmless exchange of diverging views. Every forum has threads where members argue about "philosophical" issues; as long as such threads are kept in a corner where they don't put off noobs looking for help, they do no harm. You have asked good questions in other threads, so don't believe for a moment that you are not welcome here. I hope everybody believes in freedom of speech... which does not mean that personal insults should be tolerated. But IMHO we had not arrived at that stage.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: What happened to the code of conduct thread?

Postby deltarho[1859] » Dec 07, 2017 19:22

@BasicCoder2

Well said.

Not long after Bob Zale's death in 2012 PowerBASIC found itself in the doldrums and membership of the forums started to fall dramatically. Several threads were started on how the tide could be turned. They developed in an almost identical fashion to the 'wider audience' thread here. They ended up going in all directions and got a little heated at times. What I saw at both PB and FB was 'too many cooks spoil the broth' which most dictionaries describe as "too many people involved in trying to do the same thing, so that the final result will not be good".

coderJeff's approach is better by limiting the number of 'cooks'. However, I reckon 30 posts is too small and it is based upon self selection so, in my opinion, Part 1 and Part 2 will be of little benefit. Part 3 looks very promising.
I will not be a part of it anymore as I see I have nothing in common with other forum members apart having used the language.

But that is the point of this community, we all have something in common: Coding in FreeBASIC. Yes, we have, as jj2007 wrote, "diverging views", but they are diverging from a common point. It could be said that I have nothing in common with members who spend most of their time coding graphics. I read their posts because they often use FreeBASIC in ways that had not occurred to me and will help with 'stuff' that I write.

BasicCoder2, you have been a member for over eight years: Stay put!

I will take a little more care in what I write. No, I won't - I will take a lot more care. <smile>

Added: Not good enough. BasicCoder2, I apologise for what I wrote. I should have had a go at the moderators for letting the 'wider audience' drag on. PowerBASIC moderators learned their lesson. If a thread drags on and is clearly going round in circles they will 'chip in' with something like "This thread has had a good run but has now run its course so will be locked". That works and nobody complains.

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