I'm Having a PROBLEM *SOLVED*

For other topics related to the FreeBASIC project or its community.
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

I'm Having a PROBLEM *SOLVED*

Postby datwill310 » Feb 18, 2017 0:01

OK... This has absolutely nothing to do with Free BASIC; the only reason I'm posting here is because I've reached a dead end and I'm hoping some of you guys are knowledgeable in this realm of hardware, and I don't know of any techy forums out there except this one (using the term "techy" loosely).

And I think I'm going mildly insane...

Anyway, let's start this story, shall we? Where to begin...

Last year I had experienced issues with my graphics card not being "good" enough. Good enough for what, you may ask? Well, I couldn't run Dolphin 5.0 because it didn't support the OpenGL version it required. My card/computer can play games, but only to a certain level (I can play things like agar.io fine, and using a version of Dolphin lower than 5 works satisfactorily).
But obviously, I preferred to have the latest version of Dolphin I could. In trying to fix the issue (which I will highlight later), I think I ended up breaking my computer. Luckily, with the help of an ethernet cable (my wi-fi screwed up, of all things! AND my computer is really far away from the wifi-repeater we have!...), I managed to reinstall Windows 10 and set-up a system restore point (this certainly taught me a lesson about losing access to your computer!). That definitely wasn't easy, but we (that is, me and my dad) managed to fix the problem.

Then things were going along normally... Until today...

I would like to play this game (which was hard enough to set-up for numerous reasons), but unfortunately, after a bit of deciphering of the error codes it spew, it turned out that I didn't have the right version of OpenGL...

I felt myself making the same steps I made that time before with Dolphin... Having to download the Intel Driver update program thing, scan my graphics driver, suggest an update which failed to install for an "unknown reason" (ra, I hate those errors!!!) which meant that I mustn't have the right graphics card, forget driver...

So I searched Google for the upteenth time about how to figure out what versions of the OpenGL were supported on my card, and I installed this piece of software called Geeks3D GPU Caps Viewer to find out. What I was about to see would pretty much shock me...

I still had OpenGL 1.1...

Let me be clear about this: it was released all the way back before I was even born, in 1997. I had read an article, written back in 2002, which stated that 1.1 was "ancient!"...

...

Yeah, not very impressed...

Why am I ranting on a programming language forum? Well, I was kinda hoping you'd help me out:

I've hit a dead end and I no longer know where to search (which I have been doing for the past several hours now).

I would like to find out:

What graphics card (preferably Intel because the one I've got now is of an Intel chipset and Idk about compatibility?) supports the latest version of OpenGL (4.5)?

I've seen graphics cards which are up to, like, £200 8|, and LOADS over that price! I goggle at that because I have never owned that much in one go, and this is pretty much more than what I payed for my entire computer system! I have not got that money to spend! I would, obviously, like to go as cheap as possible, but this paragraph is here because I am stressing this fact.

I am using it for: gaming, though nothing too intense like COD or 4K, but I would like it if it could work with 3D effectively. I do not use anything above 1080p, so if I can stay out of the >1080p ball-park to keep costs low, that would be great. HD, i'm uncertain about, as my monitor does not support HD (no HDMI?). I do also edit videos and watch YouTube, but I guess I don't need much for that in terms of graphics (looking at my current card XD).

I currently have "GPU 1: Intel(R) Q45/Q43 Express Chipset (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM 1.1)". I take it that isn't any good?

As I have said, I have already tried to update my drivers with the official Intel app they provide, but that didn't even work...!

As you can probably tell, I'm pretty much a noob in this area. I know that OpenGL isn't something you strictly download independently. Drivers and the cards themselves determine what version of OpenGL you can use with your hardware. That I know. This is why I am basing my desired graphics card on what version of OpenGL it supports. I am also aware that other hardware may reject using the OpenGL version, please bare with me on that.

Another note: as I was searching around for graphics cards, I never saw the word "Intel". But if I can only use Intel (?) cards, aren't I pretty much screwed?!

Thanks for your time.

PS: is this a discussion I should even be starting here? Or should I really find a more appropriate forum?

EDIT
Here are some other figures you should know:
I have an Intel iX processor (tomorrow I will give you better detail here). It's quad core: what ultimately makes it a great PC and overall an enjoyable machine to use :). It is 64-bit, Windows 10 (I've heard users are having issues with having the correct drivers on Windows 10).
I have 8GB RAM, though we can double that if we really need to. This should mean that I can have a 4GB card, though I'm not too sure whether I can stick with 2GB instead of 4 OK (this lowering costs).
If there are any more specs you want, then you can ask me for them ^_^!
Last edited by datwill310 on Mar 29, 2017 17:47, edited 2 times in total.
Plasma
Posts: 191
Joined: May 27, 2005 5:22
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby Plasma » Feb 18, 2017 1:00

Intel hasn't made standalone graphics chips since the late 90s. Your current Intel graphics are integrated into the motherboard chipset. That's why you can't find any "Intel" graphics cards. But it doesn't matter; NVidia/AMD cards will work fine.

The first thing you should do is open up your computer and see how many expansion slots you have, and what type they are. Also note the wattage of your PSU and how many free connectors it has. That will dictate what type of card you are able to install.
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby datwill310 » Feb 18, 2017 1:05

Plasma wrote:Intel hasn't made standalone graphics chips since the late 90s. Your current Intel graphics are integrated into the motherboard chipset. That's why you can't find any "Intel" graphics cards. But it doesn't matter; NVidia/AMD cards will work fine.

The first thing you should do is open up your computer and see how many expansion slots you have, and what type they are. Also note the wattage of your PSU and how many free connectors it has. That will dictate what type of card you are able to install.

Thanks for your reply and will do. That would explain the early OpenGL version!
dodicat
Posts: 5820
Joined: Jan 10, 2006 20:30
Location: Scotland

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby dodicat » Feb 18, 2017 10:32

I have the same issue.
Intel(R) Q45/Q43 Express Chipset (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM 1.1)
on Win 10.

I get:
Card: GDI Generic
Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
OpenGL Version 1.1.0

EXTENSIONS:

1 GL_WIN_swap_hint
2 GL_EXT_bgra
3 GL_EXT_paletted_texture

Press any key to continue . . .
from:

Code: Select all


#include "gl/glu.bi"
#include "crt.bi"
Sub splice(s_in As String,char As String,result() As String)
        Dim As String s=s_in,var1,var2
        Dim As Long n,pst
        #macro split(stri,char,var1,var2)
        pst=Instr(stri,char)
        var1="":var2=""
        If pst<>0 Then
            var1=Mid(stri,1,pst-1)
            var2=Mid(stri,pst+1)
        Else
            var1=stri
            Endif
            Redim Preserve result(1 To 1+n-((Len(var1)>0)+(Len(var2)>0)))
            result(n+1)=var1
            #endmacro
           
            Do
                split(s,char,var1,var2):n=n+1:s=var2
            Loop Until var2=""
            Redim Preserve result(1 To Ubound(result)-1)
        End Sub
       
Screenres 50,50,32,,2
dim as string s
s+= "Card: "+*glGetString(GL_RENDERER)+chr(10)
s+= "Manufacturer "+*glGetString(GL_VENDOR)+chr(10)
s+= "OpenGL Version "+*glGetString(GL_VERSION)+chr(10)
s+= " " +chr(10)
s+= "EXTENSIONS:"+chr(10)


redim as string result()
var tmp=*glGetString(GL_EXTENSIONS)
splice(tmp," ",result())
screen 0
width , 500
puts s
dim as integer z
for z =1 to ubound(result)
    puts str(z)+"   "+result(z)
next z
puts " "

    system_("pause")



 

There are no updated drivers around to increase even by one notch.
I use my old XP machine for opengl.
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby datwill310 » Feb 18, 2017 12:01

dodicat wrote:I have the same issue.
Intel(R) Q45/Q43 Express Chipset (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM 1.1)
on Win 10.

I get:
Card: GDI Generic
Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
OpenGL Version 1.1.0

EXTENSIONS:

1 GL_WIN_swap_hint
2 GL_EXT_bgra
3 GL_EXT_paletted_texture

...code...

There are no updated drivers around to increase even by one notch.
I use my old XP machine for opengl.

I think this is a bit appalling on Microsoft's end. Not being able to use a version higher than 1.1 is especially bad on a modern system. And not being able to upgrade that? Hmm! Unfortunately, I have no refuge in the form of XP or second computer system altogether.
Which means I'll need a new card altogether.
I have not opened up my system yet, but when I do, I'll get back to you guys asap.
Thanks again
dodicat
Posts: 5820
Joined: Jan 10, 2006 20:30
Location: Scotland

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby dodicat » Feb 18, 2017 14:03

You could Google your computer make and model and get the expansion slot details there.
If I need hardware I usually use Ebay.
I am usually very careful, but in buying this box I slipped up.
But it was a Dell with Win 10, and I had to leave XP behind although XP is a better operating system IMO.
Good luck!
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby datwill310 » Feb 18, 2017 14:10

dodicat wrote:You could Google your computer make and model and get the expansion slot details there.
If I need hardware I usually use Ebay.
I am usually very careful, but in buying this box I slipped up.
But it was a Dell with Win 10, and I had to leave XP behind although XP is a better operating system IMO.
Good luck!

Funny, I have Windows 10 on Dell too :D.

Anyway, Plasma, here are the details:
Psu wattage: 235W Max power output
Slot 1: PCIe x16
Slot 2: seems to be standard
I can't find out the connectors on my PSU easily, and dad says its irrelevant, as it takes its power through its connection with the motherboard? Dad also says my card needs to be "half size". Not really sure what that means, but he said it was worth mentioning.
dodicat
Posts: 5820
Joined: Jan 10, 2006 20:30
Location: Scotland

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby dodicat » Feb 18, 2017 14:32

Dell are non standard slots, make sure your card is for Dell.
I think some high performance cards may have a power connector.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1870383/pci-connect-graphics-card-power-supply.html
But, as your Dad says, it is normal for a graphics card not to have such a thing.
Plasma
Posts: 191
Joined: May 27, 2005 5:22
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby Plasma » Feb 18, 2017 18:01

Well I would argue the majority of aftermarket graphics cards need external power these days. Only so much power can be provided over the bus. But with a 235W PSU you are going to need a low-power card anyway.

I'm assuming your dad meant "half-height"? What model Dell do you have?

My initial recommendation is a single-slot NVidia 710, such as MSI GT 710 1GD3H-LP.
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby datwill310 » Feb 18, 2017 19:41

Plasma wrote:Well I would argue the majority of aftermarket graphics cards need external power these days. Only so much power can be provided over the bus. But with a 235W PSU you are going to need a low-power card anyway.

I'm assuming your dad meant "half-height"? What model Dell do you have?

My initial recommendation is a single-slot NVidia 710, such as MSI GT 710 1GD3H-LP.

Hi,

Yeah I'm pretty sure he means half-height. My casing says "Optiplex 780", but right now I'm having issues booting my computer. Once I get it fixed, I should be able to give more detailed information.

The product you suggested seems good. I'll get back to you once we analyse it more closely.

Thanks again.
dodicat
Posts: 5820
Joined: Jan 10, 2006 20:30
Location: Scotland

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby dodicat » Feb 18, 2017 20:01

Plasma
Posts: 191
Joined: May 27, 2005 5:22
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby Plasma » Feb 18, 2017 20:56

datwill310 wrote:
Plasma wrote:Well I would argue the majority of aftermarket graphics cards need external power these days. Only so much power can be provided over the bus. But with a 235W PSU you are going to need a low-power card anyway.

I'm assuming your dad meant "half-height"? What model Dell do you have?

My initial recommendation is a single-slot NVidia 710, such as MSI GT 710 1GD3H-LP.

Hi,

Yeah I'm pretty sure he means half-height. My casing says "Optiplex 780", but right now I'm having issues booting my computer. Once I get it fixed, I should be able to give more detailed information.

The product you suggested seems good. I'll get back to you once we analyse it more closely.

Thanks again.


Ok. The card I linked should work. It is only 19W, so under the 25W limit of your PCIe slot. It will come with a low-profile bracket that you can swap on, but you will lose the VGA port. So you will need a DVI to VGA cable/adapter if your monitor is VGA only.

Keep in mind this is still a low-end, low-power card, and although it's way better than your integrated graphics, you will have to turn down the detail/resolution on modern games to run them. But it will have current NVidia driver support in Windows 10, with OpenGL 4.5.
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby datwill310 » Feb 18, 2017 21:12

Plasma wrote:
datwill310 wrote:
Plasma wrote:Well I would argue the majority of aftermarket graphics cards need external power these days. Only so much power can be provided over the bus. But with a 235W PSU you are going to need a low-power card anyway.

I'm assuming your dad meant "half-height"? What model Dell do you have?

My initial recommendation is a single-slot NVidia 710, such as MSI GT 710 1GD3H-LP.

Hi,

Yeah I'm pretty sure he means half-height. My casing says "Optiplex 780", but right now I'm having issues booting my computer. Once I get it fixed, I should be able to give more detailed information.

The product you suggested seems good. I'll get back to you once we analyse it more closely.

Thanks again.


Ok. The card I linked should work. It is only 19W, so under the 25W limit of your PCIe slot. It will come with a low-profile bracket that you can swap on, but you will lose the VGA port. So you will need a DVI to VGA cable/adapter if your monitor is VGA only.

Keep in mind this is still a low-end, low-power card, and although it's way better than your integrated graphics, you will have to turn down the detail/resolution on modern games to run them. But it will have current NVidia driver support in Windows 10, with OpenGL 4.5.

I will keep all this in mind. Thanks for your help!
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby datwill310 » Feb 18, 2017 21:13

dodicat wrote:Ebay has many dell cards.
for example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=graphics+card&_osacat=175673&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R3.TR3.TRC1.A0.H1.Xgraphics+card+dell.TRS0&_nkw=dell+optiplex+graphics+card&_sacat=175673

Run this to get some details about your box:

Code: Select all

shell "dxdiag"

I have optilex 780 also.

Thanks your contributions too, dodicat! Isn't it odd XD.
datwill310
Posts: 355
Joined: May 29, 2015 20:37

Re: I'm Having a PROBLEM

Postby datwill310 » Mar 08, 2017 22:06

OK guys, thought I'd like to give you an update.

I've bought the card Plasma suggested, the only difference being it's 2GB not 1GB.

We are slightly concerned that, while it should fit length-ways and height-ways, it may not fit breadth-ways! Of course, this is not to blame anybody here, I'm just giving an update. I think it should, but dad says we may have to "get creative" and move the hardware about a little. Something which I am, now more than ever, worried about doing: we just had an episode where the computer wouldn't boot AT ALL and it was making noises. That was scary, lucky I've backed-up my data. Turns out one of the wires may have been loose.

And now I sound like I'm writing a cheesy diary.

Anyway, just to let you guys know.

Should be delivered by the weekend. I'll inform you guys of the results.

I promised my dad:

"After we install this graphics card, I am NOT opening that lid ever again." Or ANY PC lid, for that matter! He said I would have little luck with that.

Why, WHY am I telling you this stuff...

Return to “Community Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests