How many people actually use FreeBasic?

For other topics related to the FreeBASIC project or its community.
angros47
Posts: 1680
Joined: Jun 21, 2005 19:04

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby angros47 » Dec 18, 2013 17:58

Blitz3D is for windows; the author first made a program called BlitzBasic inspired to the amiga basic, for 2d games, then he made an extended version with 3d features; the language and the compiler is the same, in fact blitz3d can run every program made in blitzbasic, it only has a 3d library... but it's sold as a different products (so, you have to pay twice!)

Building a 3d game is not so awful: you can build your 3d model with any 3d tool (under windows, the freeware anim8r was really easy to use), and then animate it with a software like MilkShape. Using a real actor is not needed: this technique is called "motion capture". To animate a mesh, you can draw a "skeletal" (a simple, sticky figure): then, you set for every "bone" which vertices are affected (i.e.: you select all vertices of an arm, and you assign them to the "bone" of the arm): when you move the bone, these vertices will move with it. The last step is to set key frames: you set the position that bones must have at a certain frame (all other frame will just have an interpolated position). In Blitz3D, you could set an animation and the model performed it; also, the interpolation was used when you switched from an animation to another (i.e.: a man is running, you set the action to draw a gun: it won't do immediately, first it will stop running, bring the arm to its side, then it will draw the gun).

Of course, in FreeBasic, you can do the same things with OpenB3d.
speedfixer
Posts: 414
Joined: Nov 28, 2012 1:27
Location: California

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby speedfixer » Jun 13, 2014 18:30

(Found/followed this older topic from a ban by V1ctor. My contribution:)

1980:
First used BASIC on an LNW80 (TRS 80 clone.) Fascinated! To me, the system was magic because it could also run CPM and then MSDOS (after M$ poked their name into it.)

Software could do such a thing: make a computer OS-flexible!
Before I knew it, I had a business writing custom software. Ended with DRI CBASIC. I had two completely different 40,000 line program sets I made and supported: full accounting, and a very specialized, spoilage and use predicting inventory program for a VERY large commercial fats, oils and sugar producer. Also, some specialized translation and low-level CNC programs.
(Sadly, a divorce with really stupid terms made me decide to quit: just the accounting required made it no fun, anymore. Funny thing - never made a profit after that. Took three years to shed all my customers.)

Both my sons learned the alphabet before age 4 because they wanted to pick their own game to play. (A small shell script.)

Did my time at work. Retired. Never left computers, really.
Now - back to BASIC.

I wanted to bring to life my vision of a general AI.
I needed a language.

C and C++ were the top choices.
But, really. If your program is going to interact with humans (and - if not process control, why else would any program exist?) strings are REQUIRED. And not directly supporting arrays is just an expression of elitism and ego. When I looked at solving tough problems, I came to the conclusion that C and C++ were both too complex and too much an art form. Any answer by the 'experts' more reflected their philosophy of how the future should be and their compiler-of-choice, more so than what a concrete good answer should be to someone trying to learn or evaluate. (When I started looking, I hadn't retired, yet. BOOST was there, but I already had too little time at the end of each day to need to learn more and always keep up with version changes.)

'D' had strings and arrays. But it also had one person sitting in the control chair that did when/as he chose, and no real bug list. I stopped logging the reserved words at about 2500.

Sadly, most other 'new' languages just leverage other languages and keep upping the resource requierments. A sign of major laziness, really. Come on - anything on top of any flavor of JAVA?

I always loved BASIC. Natural feeling keywords; efforts to make use simple. I searched.
FREEBASIC is nearly complete, mostly cross-platform. Active and generous contributers, mostly non-judgemental gurus and very active forum participants made learning and understanding the fine points so much easier. And VERY few trolls. (One - perhaps two?)

Nearly complete: no LINUX crt/io.bi header.
This means so many things that can't be fixed easily in the compiler and too many things that can never hit the speeds that will be needed to stay competitive. Some memory management tricks can't be done. Too bad. (Specifically, I want interprocess messages/semaphores. etc. I've asked if anyone has used the ZMQ lib, and not got an answer.)

Mostly cross platform: Huge lag on library updates on all but Windows. And lots of stuff that only work in Windows. Careful: you may end up with too many major functional attractions available on only one platform. Then, why would you need to exist?

If I were starting my work years ago, I would help with fixing these problems. I'm too old, and don't really have that much time left. I just want to work on my stuff.

The new fixes coming through on this next release are exciting, especially the multi-threading fixes. (RTTI: guys, too complex and you begin to look like those other monster 'I can do anything and break any rule I write by bending the properties' languages.)

I do love FREEBASIC.

David

(And even Arduino, etc. is 'supported' - like I need more to use up each hour and minute of my days!)
chung
Posts: 636
Joined: Jan 16, 2010 20:52
Location: France
Contact:

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby chung » Jun 29, 2014 15:36

i like freebasic too , but wonder where are those thousand peoples who download freebasic at sourceforge every week (about 2000 a week) ...
BasicCoder2
Posts: 3586
Joined: Jan 01, 2009 7:03
Location: Australia

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby BasicCoder2 » Jul 03, 2014 23:05

chung wrote:i like freebasic too , but wonder where are those thousand peoples who download freebasic at sourceforge every week (about 2000 a week) ...

Well I have downloaded other languages and decided not to use them. I used to mainly use C although I dabbled in Java before discovering FreeBasic.

How many active users of FreeBasic is hard to gauge beyond the few hard core posters to this forum.

Recently I have taken an interest in the mechanics of writing simple games (not the more complex 3D stuff that you do) and notice that game makers use Python, Java, C++ or some specialized game writing program. The games section in this forum seems to be dead for all practical purposes. I think Lachie's competition would have attracted more interest if there was a wider choice of game themes.
codeFoil
Posts: 255
Joined: Dec 22, 2011 4:45
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby codeFoil » Jul 04, 2014 3:38

Pretty old thread, but I thought I'd chime in.

I use FreeBASIC daily just for the pleasure of it. I'm capable in x86 assembly and C, have a familiarity with C++, Java, Python, and Javascript, and I know enough about the .NET family to know I don't need them. Over the years I have absorbed a lot of those high minded tomes like Design Patterns and Code Complete, but I simply enjoy coding in BASIC. I haven't yet encountered a programming concept that I could not express in FreeBASIC (although occasionally it's a stretch, but less so than it would be in C).

I primarily use it just for experimentation, but I also use it on the job often for one off translation of CSV files. Unless I'm thrown a situation that requires COM objects, it's my first choice. I've also used it for a complete Windows graphical client application for a simple distributed enterprise application that is being used by about fifty people spread out across the United States and is the only application in my environment that I never receive complaints about. (I just invited bad luck). My only regret is that the code is owned by the my employer so I could not share with the community.
sean_vn
Posts: 283
Joined: Aug 06, 2012 8:26

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby sean_vn » Jul 06, 2014 3:32

Deleted.
Last edited by sean_vn on Oct 15, 2014 11:47, edited 1 time in total.
St_W
Posts: 1504
Joined: Feb 11, 2009 14:24
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby St_W » Jul 06, 2014 13:48

regarding 3: The current Git-Version of FreeBasic already supports 64-bit on Windows and Linux. There also exist some ARM ports, although none of them is complete or official part of the freebasic project.

regarding 4: Header files are just a way of structuring your code, so if you don't wan't them don't use them. However, C and many others also use header files. Using C headers in FB is no problem as there are automated conversion tools like fbfrog.
TJF
Posts: 3601
Joined: Dec 06, 2009 22:27
Location: N47°, E15°
Contact:

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby TJF » Jul 06, 2014 19:41

@sean_vn

    4 (no headers): When I developed GirToBac I made some tests with typelib files. These are used in interpreter languages like JavaSkript or Python to bind libraries at run-time. It's about 800 to 1000 LOC in FB to implement a typelib module in the FB compiler. Then up-to-date bindings can be generated at compile time. Of course, not all libraries provide a typelib file. But most GNOME libraries do allready.
    3 (32/64 bit on Intel and ARM): As St_W said, 64 bit versions are available for Intel CPUs. And dkl reported that he included the ARM fixes in the GIT code (some testing is needed).
    1 (inbuild GUI): I'm no fan of inbuild GUI since I wont miss all the new features coming with new versions of GUI libraries. GTK+ is well integrated by Glade3 and GladeToBac3, including advanced features like I18N.
    2 (modern grafic): GTK+-3 uses CairoGrafics, a real modern and powerful interface. And if you want further comfort, GooCanvas is available for FB as well.
IMHO there's nothing you want that couldn't be made available yet. Just adapt it, or learn to use it as is.
marcov
Posts: 3012
Joined: Jun 16, 2005 9:45
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Contact:

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby marcov » Jul 06, 2014 20:16

sean_vn wrote:
4/ No header files please.


Could you elaborate on that point?
Dr_D
Posts: 2400
Joined: May 27, 2005 4:59
Contact:

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby Dr_D » Jul 09, 2014 1:34

Add me. I will probably use it like I did with QBasic... hopefully it will never become obsolete though. I will always have a daydream of releasing a really cool FB game, where people will be like, this game is awesome! WTF is FreeBASIC? :p
rolliebollocks
Posts: 2655
Joined: Aug 28, 2008 10:54
Location: new york

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby rolliebollocks » Jul 09, 2014 5:24

Processing sucks.

FB forever!

Seriously though, I'm not a huge fan of Processing, although there are lot of people who are digital artists who use it. It does a nice job of handling otherwise complex tasks simply, but the compiler is built into the IDE and it is slow, and doesn't scale well to large projects. It has a JavaScript-ish syntax. But you can't make standalone executables with it, and using extended libraries breaks its web compatibility.

Python is a good language, but I like FB better. I would guess that FB would compare favorably with Python in terms of execution speed. Python's built in list is nice, but it lacks arrays, which means its slow. The list type to operate as it does has to operate as a composite variable, meaning each variable no matter how small will have the same size. Since memory is handled differently in a list, arrays are faster, the draw back being that all elements in an array must be of the same type.

So basically, I think FB is the best language that I know of. The idea that Processing is in any way preferable to FB is absolutely ludicrous. Processing completely sucks.
PhiltheBear
Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 08, 2014 17:45

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby PhiltheBear » Jul 10, 2014 18:39

I'm one of the really 'old' Basic users. I was one of the first people to use Basic in the UK on a DEC RSTS-11 mini computer (45 years ago), the first person to get an IBM PC with Basic on (before IBM had one) in the UK and I've been through all the various flavours of Basic that IBM did - QBasic, Basic 7, etc (I've still got the original manuals).

I love it. It's easy and doesn't have silly rules like making := mean 'assign' when = is perfectly OK. Or having to end every statement with a ; Why 'modern' languages do that I have no idea.

I'm not greatly in favour of making it OO - but that's just my preference. I still think in terms of GOTO, GOSUB etc. and I can write programs much quicker that way.

I use FBide as an editor and everything works perfectly OK.

What I don't like - a simple thing but I'd really like to see, in the wiki or as part of the 'manual' a list of available libraries with the functions that they provide. For example, at present I want to produce some accounting software that produces invoices. I'm fairly sure that someone, somewhere has done something similar and dealt with stuff like printing different fonts/layouts to format documents.
BasicCoder2
Posts: 3586
Joined: Jan 01, 2009 7:03
Location: Australia

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby BasicCoder2 » Jul 10, 2014 21:07

PhiltheBear wrote: I still think in terms of GOTO, GOSUB etc. and I can write programs much quicker that way.

Interesting. I don't find spaghetti GOTO or GOSUB quicker than SUBS. I started using SUBS in assembler and realized how much easier it was to read and understand the code. SUBS essentially amount to adding new commands to a language in a standard format. Something I did with QBASIC to add commands for mouse control. I agree about the annoying semicolon which caused most of my compile failures when I forgot to use it. I also found the squiggly brackets even more tedious and visually unclear although I used C exclusively in my old DOS programs. As I tend to think visually I find spatially arranged modules easier to see than linear code. To some extent Python's indentation tends to blur out these visual modules for me.
Last edited by BasicCoder2 on Jul 11, 2014 8:44, edited 1 time in total.
anonymous1337
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sep 12, 2005 20:06
Location: California

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby anonymous1337 » Jul 10, 2014 21:32

PhiltheBear wrote:I love it. It's easy and doesn't have silly rules like making := mean 'assign' when = is perfectly OK. Or having to end every statement with a ; Why 'modern' languages do that I have no idea.

Not all of them do :)
Ruby does a pretty decent job at doing cool stuff easily. Not the best language to look at from an outside perspective, but a super-easy language to use. I have only a couple complaints. (With most languages, I have many, many complaints.)

I'm not greatly in favour of making it OO - but that's just my preference. I still think in terms of GOTO, GOSUB etc. and I can write programs much quicker that way.

All just tools in the box :)
Problem is when the box doesn't have the tools you want...

I use FBide as an editor and everything works perfectly OK.
Eek!
It's frustrating to have find & replace without wrap-around or regex support. I bump into stuff like that all of the time with FBIde. Too bad the work source was lost! At one point I was frustrated enough to consider fixing it.

What I don't like - a simple thing but I'd really like to see, in the wiki or as part of the 'manual' a list of available libraries with the functions that they provide. For example, at present I want to produce some accounting software that produces invoices. I'm fairly sure that someone, somewhere has done something similar and dealt with stuff like printing different fonts/layouts to format documents.
That's a great idea!
marcov
Posts: 3012
Joined: Jun 16, 2005 9:45
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Contact:

Re: How many people actually use FreeBasic?

Postby marcov » Jul 11, 2014 7:09

PhiltheBear wrote:
I love it. It's easy and doesn't have silly rules like making := mean 'assign' when = is perfectly OK.


(Keeping assignment and comparison apart is based on normal mathematical notation. It's not something that dropped from the sky with programming languages. Without it you get into problems as = and == in C, though in C it is aggravated by the everything is an expression principle)

Or having to end every statement with a ; Why 'modern' languages do that I have no idea.


1. To be able to split a statement over multiple lines. Without it you get silly things as needing a character to split lines.
2. to improve error generation.

Return to “Community Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest