@ Lachie + anonymous1337 and other potential FB enthusiasts
Perhaps we could form a little break away FB group and do some work on plugging the gaps in the English speaking FB ecosystem
Im thinking a Shiny webby , Video tutorials , concise code example library (user friendly front end stuff, teacher packs , all gently promoting FB etc ) lifting FB into the 21st century
& maybe investigate development related to win8, mobile phones and tablet ports
Main Thrust
Opening up a second front ( English language ) with fresh ideas and fresh troops and a fresh spin. Without interfering with the steadfast development being carried out here.
answers on a postcard to...
@ Lachie + anonymous1337 and other potential FB enthusiasts
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Lachie Dazdarian
- Posts: 2338
- Joined: May 31, 2005 9:59
- Location: Croatia
- Contact:
maybe you should & other shoulds drop yesterdays mindset
your attitude sucks lachie if thats all you can think of saying
maybe you & others should drop yesterdays mindset AND YESTERDAYS PROBLEMS and move forward
Im well aware that the world is full of takeover TV wannabes. That was yesterdays news. (before my time) But it still infects this community today. That is THE REAL PROBLEM
I have a great distaste for take over TV types myself. Your sniping comment was aimed at the wrong target.
No wonder progress is slow if all you can do is shoot first ask questions later. My appraisal of the situation is correct and you know it.
Any genuine community spirited enthusiasm soon gives up and goes elsewhere. ITS A SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY
1 hey we could do this better
2 hail of rocks
3 hey i was just trying to help
4 yeah whatever
5 jeez where does your attitude come from
6 more rocks
7 exit enthusiasm
If there is no appetite for change here, that's fine. Each slice of the ecosystem to its own. But there is no harm in setting up additional working groups. In fact this should be encouraged.
What next denial of services attacks on the Russian and German FB websites.
Know who your enemies are and who your friends are. If you shoot down genuine users for pointing out obvious flaws and suggesting solutions then M$ wants to hear from you.
Exit enthusiasm AKA nothing much changes, just another pile of rocks on the floor
maybe you & others should drop yesterdays mindset AND YESTERDAYS PROBLEMS and move forward
Im well aware that the world is full of takeover TV wannabes. That was yesterdays news. (before my time) But it still infects this community today. That is THE REAL PROBLEM
I have a great distaste for take over TV types myself. Your sniping comment was aimed at the wrong target.
No wonder progress is slow if all you can do is shoot first ask questions later. My appraisal of the situation is correct and you know it.
Any genuine community spirited enthusiasm soon gives up and goes elsewhere. ITS A SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY
1 hey we could do this better
2 hail of rocks
3 hey i was just trying to help
4 yeah whatever
5 jeez where does your attitude come from
6 more rocks
7 exit enthusiasm
If there is no appetite for change here, that's fine. Each slice of the ecosystem to its own. But there is no harm in setting up additional working groups. In fact this should be encouraged.
What next denial of services attacks on the Russian and German FB websites.
Know who your enemies are and who your friends are. If you shoot down genuine users for pointing out obvious flaws and suggesting solutions then M$ wants to hear from you.
Exit enthusiasm AKA nothing much changes, just another pile of rocks on the floor
The non English speaking FB universe is expanding
As i only speak English it would be nice if the English speaking part of the FB ecosystem was expanding to.
I & others could & would be contributing more time,money and effort if there a little more co-ordination or encouragement when it come to beefing up some of the obvious gaps.
Question
Why should i (or anyone else) work alone busting a gut creating dozens of video tutorials or Building a full on website etc if peeps turn round and accuse me of trying to take over or gain power and influence ?
I simply enjoy working working as part of a small team. Last time i looked that wasn't a crime against humanity. But the T word seems arise great suspicion and foreboding here.
When i see something is 'broke' i like to call a 'spade a spade' , i have no time for petty power politics. That's me in a nutshell. Maybe that's too much honesty for some. I just like to see good stuff built is all. That's the only thing that motivates me .
Am i calling a spade a spade hell yes ?
Am i trying to play take over TV , hell no !
@Lachie don't confuse my outspoken critique with malintent. Nothing could be further from the truth. Its the bark of a sheepdog not the howl of the wolf.
Maybe Im niave, maybe its because im a windows PC & not a MACfan , or a Linux legionnaire. Maybe its because personal power politics is overrunning opensource & im triggering some kind of instinctive immune response.
Whatever, common sense, community spirit & teamwork seem to be in decline.
Maybe its just the rebellious, go it alone each man for himself take no orders from no one attitude that has come to dominate. Once the domino starts to fall in one direction its hard to reverse the trend. Groupthink always the end result. Result = failure to adapt & failure to thrive.
Once exploited , forever shy ? is that it ?
Suspicious minds and shallow whispers scurry from the light ?
Whatever, i just find all this hard to compute. It makes no sense to me.
As i only speak English it would be nice if the English speaking part of the FB ecosystem was expanding to.
I & others could & would be contributing more time,money and effort if there a little more co-ordination or encouragement when it come to beefing up some of the obvious gaps.
Question
Why should i (or anyone else) work alone busting a gut creating dozens of video tutorials or Building a full on website etc if peeps turn round and accuse me of trying to take over or gain power and influence ?
I simply enjoy working working as part of a small team. Last time i looked that wasn't a crime against humanity. But the T word seems arise great suspicion and foreboding here.
When i see something is 'broke' i like to call a 'spade a spade' , i have no time for petty power politics. That's me in a nutshell. Maybe that's too much honesty for some. I just like to see good stuff built is all. That's the only thing that motivates me .
Am i calling a spade a spade hell yes ?
Am i trying to play take over TV , hell no !
@Lachie don't confuse my outspoken critique with malintent. Nothing could be further from the truth. Its the bark of a sheepdog not the howl of the wolf.
Maybe Im niave, maybe its because im a windows PC & not a MACfan , or a Linux legionnaire. Maybe its because personal power politics is overrunning opensource & im triggering some kind of instinctive immune response.
Whatever, common sense, community spirit & teamwork seem to be in decline.
Maybe its just the rebellious, go it alone each man for himself take no orders from no one attitude that has come to dominate. Once the domino starts to fall in one direction its hard to reverse the trend. Groupthink always the end result. Result = failure to adapt & failure to thrive.
Once exploited , forever shy ? is that it ?
Suspicious minds and shallow whispers scurry from the light ?
Whatever, i just find all this hard to compute. It makes no sense to me.
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Lachie Dazdarian
- Posts: 2338
- Joined: May 31, 2005 9:59
- Location: Croatia
- Contact:
I have a short fuse for people who talk a lot and create little/nothing. As I said, we don't need managers and motivational speakers. We need developers FIRST, then webmasters, editors and non programming-content creators. Create a framework (website), fill it with original useful content (reviews of games and apps, tutorials, libraries, showcases of libraries, whatever, ...), create a good user-driven content system and then see if it will work. Above all, be aware that you will have to constantly be the primarily content contributor to motivate developers to continue to create. You can't do it? Well, then don't preach anyone, please. We are all aware of the situation and we either can't or don't have time/inspiration to fix it. The amount of those in here who don't want to help but can is minimal if non-existent, and above all, they don't care what you have to say even more than me.
Motivate with activity, not with talk.
Motivate with activity, not with talk.
sounds like a dead man walking to me
how many years has this all been going on and you still have a decent website up yet ?
you've got some working software , a crude forum and some basic documentation
coming into this a long time after FB was first initiated i can see all the problems plain as day
Lack of vision, Weak leadership , weak organization low motivation & community low output.
I see a dozen opinion pulling in different directions.
If im starting to sound like im reading from a motivational manual its because this community is exhibiting a classic set of well known symptoms
I see high utility software sat in the corner of the inter web just going to waste
how many years has this all been going on and you still have a decent website up yet ?
you've got some working software , a crude forum and some basic documentation
coming into this a long time after FB was first initiated i can see all the problems plain as day
Lack of vision, Weak leadership , weak organization low motivation & community low output.
I see a dozen opinion pulling in different directions.
If im starting to sound like im reading from a motivational manual its because this community is exhibiting a classic set of well known symptoms
I see high utility software sat in the corner of the inter web just going to waste
Last edited by TESLACOIL on Oct 01, 2011 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
Look: Lachie is correct. If you are not going to contribute content, no one will line up behind you. This is why there was not another issue of Back2BASIC. I had NO time for making content. I barely had time for editing and splicing together what was sent to me.TESLACOIL wrote:sounds like a dead man walking to me
how many years has this all been going on and you still have a decent website up yet ?
you've got some working software , a crude forum and some basic documentation
coming into this a long time after FB was first initiated i can see all the problems plain as day
Weak leadership , weak organization low motivation & community low output.
And on a side note, I thought YOU were going to contribute more to it, but I only got one or two items from you.
People did contribute work, but not enough. I only got 2 submissions for the issue that didn't happen. If I had some content of my own, I could have made an issue anyway and it would probably still be running.
Long story short: If you want people to rally behind you, YOU need to move in that direction so there is ROOM behind you for others to follow in. You can't point the way then stand still.
There is nothing wrong with your ideas. They are good ideas. But you have to start it. You have to be committed to it. Your actions will build enthusiasm in others.
If there was a bit of leadership, then LONG TERM VIABLE work groups could be set up
leader , I have a dream ...... we need x ( & leader idea is correct/true )
x is a lot of work
now if mary mungo and midge agree to commit to building x then x will be built
as x is essential I the leader will commit my time to building team x
then as a leader i can go off and start building a team to assemble y
I personally thought the e magazine idea was a bit lame and i said so at the time, nevertheless i did contribute at the start and also made some positive suggestions. ( it does have value just not as high as other things that can be built )
For me i see the website is the key , the foundation stone. But even now its getting nowhere. How many FB programmers does it take to build a website ?
1 we got usable code ( lock it down call it build N whatever)
2 now build a proper website ( to promote and ditribute build N )
The code was here long before i arrived, when it came to the website all i got was " not on my watch "
Then things got hostile when i suggested having another .org fb webby. oooohhhh your trying to take over weve been there before.
well to be honest im not bloody surprised someone tried
Well its changed but its not exactly happening
http://www.freebasic.net/
Im glad to see a start has been made. Dare i suggest that a screenshot and some WSYWIG graphics be deployed.
The purpose of the website is to attract and retain NEW PEOPLE 99.9999% of the planet has never heard of FB. 1% of the population could and would use it if we helped & encouraged them in their first faltering steps.
The FB software has genuine utility , so you wont be wasting good peoples time. Its not like we promoting 'flakeware' = be bold = be proud = be truthful
leader , I have a dream ...... we need x ( & leader idea is correct/true )
x is a lot of work
now if mary mungo and midge agree to commit to building x then x will be built
as x is essential I the leader will commit my time to building team x
then as a leader i can go off and start building a team to assemble y
I personally thought the e magazine idea was a bit lame and i said so at the time, nevertheless i did contribute at the start and also made some positive suggestions. ( it does have value just not as high as other things that can be built )
For me i see the website is the key , the foundation stone. But even now its getting nowhere. How many FB programmers does it take to build a website ?
1 we got usable code ( lock it down call it build N whatever)
2 now build a proper website ( to promote and ditribute build N )
The code was here long before i arrived, when it came to the website all i got was " not on my watch "
Then things got hostile when i suggested having another .org fb webby. oooohhhh your trying to take over weve been there before.
well to be honest im not bloody surprised someone tried
Well its changed but its not exactly happening
http://www.freebasic.net/
Im glad to see a start has been made. Dare i suggest that a screenshot and some WSYWIG graphics be deployed.
The purpose of the website is to attract and retain NEW PEOPLE 99.9999% of the planet has never heard of FB. 1% of the population could and would use it if we helped & encouraged them in their first faltering steps.
The FB software has genuine utility , so you wont be wasting good peoples time. Its not like we promoting 'flakeware' = be bold = be proud = be truthful
Your idea of what a leader does is wrong. A leaders primary objective is not to be an idea man, but to MAKE SURE THINGS GET DONE. If no one else will do it the leader needs to do it. You cannot and should not flit from idea to idea setting up this team and that team. You need to be a driving force.
I will not comment further on this topic.
I will leave with this: If you want something done, you have to do it yourself. You can't expect others to do all or even some of the work for you. You have to be prepared to do the whole damn thing yourself or it will not happen.
I will not comment further on this topic.
I will leave with this: If you want something done, you have to do it yourself. You can't expect others to do all or even some of the work for you. You have to be prepared to do the whole damn thing yourself or it will not happen.
The idea of a community leader is
A see what needs doing
B organise others to do it
that way the Community leader can concentrate his time looking for problems and organising other people to fix them
A community leader should not get bogged down in this or that project. They should be focused on the big picture & making sure there are no key bits of the jigsaw missing.
Its all about delegation.
A see what needs doing
B organise others to do it
that way the Community leader can concentrate his time looking for problems and organising other people to fix them
A community leader should not get bogged down in this or that project. They should be focused on the big picture & making sure there are no key bits of the jigsaw missing.
Its all about delegation.
In some points, he is right. To set up a good environment, you need someone for organization.
For example: the german wiki.
We are rewriting almost everything now. To start with, we created a template, how it should look and what do we need to do, to get all the information we need. next step was to get a list of all commands. In this list, everyone of our team can write comments on what has to be done or if it's complete.
After this first organization, everything was great and we're almost done. Without planing the template and set up the list we would be as far from 'done' as possible.
In big projects like FreeBASIC is, you need someone who feel responsible to set up a wiki to contribute information and talking to the people, which want to help (in any way). I think sir_mud made a great start with http://code.google.com/p/freebasic-headers/
He would be (in my opinion) the right person to do the organization for the international environment. @sir_mud: but even just do the organization is really lots of work^^
My two cents :)
For example: the german wiki.
We are rewriting almost everything now. To start with, we created a template, how it should look and what do we need to do, to get all the information we need. next step was to get a list of all commands. In this list, everyone of our team can write comments on what has to be done or if it's complete.
After this first organization, everything was great and we're almost done. Without planing the template and set up the list we would be as far from 'done' as possible.
In big projects like FreeBASIC is, you need someone who feel responsible to set up a wiki to contribute information and talking to the people, which want to help (in any way). I think sir_mud made a great start with http://code.google.com/p/freebasic-headers/
He would be (in my opinion) the right person to do the organization for the international environment. @sir_mud: but even just do the organization is really lots of work^^
My two cents :)
@ Teslacoil.
The title you gave to this post conscripted two other members of this forum in what amounts to an act of desertion or mutiny. The response you received was not at all surprising.
There appears to be no one following, so you are clearly not a community leader here. People become leaders by achieving things and thereby gaining followers.
No man is a prophet in his own land, maybe you should consider a change and move to a place where you can be more productive. By all means take advantage of your own advice and “open a second front ( English language ) with fresh ideas and fresh troops and a fresh spin. Without interfering with the steadfast development being carried out here.”
Only when you actually do something and if others then follow you, will you have become a credible leader.
The title you gave to this post conscripted two other members of this forum in what amounts to an act of desertion or mutiny. The response you received was not at all surprising.
There appears to be no one following, so you are clearly not a community leader here. People become leaders by achieving things and thereby gaining followers.
No man is a prophet in his own land, maybe you should consider a change and move to a place where you can be more productive. By all means take advantage of your own advice and “open a second front ( English language ) with fresh ideas and fresh troops and a fresh spin. Without interfering with the steadfast development being carried out here.”
Only when you actually do something and if others then follow you, will you have become a credible leader.
desertion or mutiny are phrases associated with a suspicious paranoid mindset
I merely suggested that we split up into work groups to get stuff done that badly needs to get done.
what fool would walk onto the centre stage and openly declare mutiny or call for desertion ? To what goal intent or gain ? There's no money in it, little recognition or thanks. And mostly its a tedious slog rather than fun fun fun.
You are talking like you are on drugs or something !. there are some truly warped ideas floating around the community. Ideas that have no foundation in reality. You want to be leader ? your welcome to it ! Anyone who can herd cats deserves a medal. And by the sound of it ferral ones to boot !
IMHO , my suggestion is
we should set up a work group to sort out the website, and chuck enough energy at it to get it up to scratch. Someone should lead the website design group so the finished article is top notch
the same for video tutorials and other useful things we can do to beef up the ecosystem.
The world wont end if these things don't happen , but FB wont be doing itself justice if they don't get done well.
I merely suggested that we split up into work groups to get stuff done that badly needs to get done.
what fool would walk onto the centre stage and openly declare mutiny or call for desertion ? To what goal intent or gain ? There's no money in it, little recognition or thanks. And mostly its a tedious slog rather than fun fun fun.
You are talking like you are on drugs or something !. there are some truly warped ideas floating around the community. Ideas that have no foundation in reality. You want to be leader ? your welcome to it ! Anyone who can herd cats deserves a medal. And by the sound of it ferral ones to boot !
IMHO , my suggestion is
we should set up a work group to sort out the website, and chuck enough energy at it to get it up to scratch. Someone should lead the website design group so the finished article is top notch
the same for video tutorials and other useful things we can do to beef up the ecosystem.
The world wont end if these things don't happen , but FB wont be doing itself justice if they don't get done well.
C being elected by the developers to fill the above roles. Usually on the basis of contributions or seniority and thus familiarity with all details of hte project.TESLACOIL wrote:The idea of a community leader is
A see what needs doing
B organise others to do it
And that is where the problem is :-)
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vladimir777
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Aug 19, 2011 18:28
>> Perhaps we could form a little break away FB group and do some work on plugging the gaps in the English speaking FB ecosystem <<
AGREE
I have idea for a logo, instead horse donkey:
http://www.harvestworksinc.org/images/a ... donkey.jpg
If you think it is a joke, then you dont know how cool donkey is :)
AGREE
I have idea for a logo, instead horse donkey:
http://www.harvestworksinc.org/images/a ... donkey.jpg
If you think it is a joke, then you dont know how cool donkey is :)