Off Topic / Religion -> Bible chat rooms? [Closed]

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fxm
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Postby fxm » Feb 21, 2011 12:35

Politics or religion in this technical forum

It is in everyone's interest to avoid as much conflict. This forum is a place for technical exchange among users of different backgrounds (age, religion, political orientation, culture, nationality, etc..), I think it is highly inadvisable to initiate discussions of a political or religious nature.
Galeon
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Postby Galeon » Feb 21, 2011 14:53

I just want to say that if you want to ask something about religion, you should ask someone who have the same religion as you and who have more knowledge than you about the Bible (or Koran, or anything else). Even if you'll go into a Christian chat room, Christian religions are different in what they teach and their interpretation about the Bible. Its better if you'll ask someone personally than asking in a room with people of different religions.
For example, I'm a Christian but my religion have a different teaching than other Christian religions. We don't believe in the Trinity, and if I'll ask a Christian with a different religion, he will surely not agree with me.
It is even worse if you'll ask in a community with people in different religions (like Muslim, Christian, Atheist?, etc). For example, an atheist will say that Bible is full of contradictions, I won't agree because I haven't seen any contradictions in the Bible. They all have different explanations why they seem to be contradicting (talking each one will surely need personal talk). And I would say that the Bible is purposely made to be "unreadable" to those who are not interested, then someone will disagree, and the war goes on...
Then, if your religion cannot answer your questions, it just means that you still haven't seen the "truth" and you should look for it (yes, a different religion).
[I'm a Jehovah's Witnesses if you are wondering what my religion is...]
Richard
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Postby Richard » Feb 21, 2011 18:55

It would be really good if members could avoid discussion of any specific religious content in this thread. Every belief system is different. This FreeBASIC forum is really not an appropriate site for the judgement and criticism of other members belief systems.

Please use your valuable time wisely, while making your Moderators' task easier, by restricting your posts in this thread to links to other discussion group sites as originally requested by anonymous1337 at the head of this thread.
marcov
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Postby marcov » Feb 21, 2011 19:46

Galeon wrote:We don't believe in the Trinity, and if I'll ask a Christian with a different religion, he will surely not agree with me.
...
[I'm a Jehovah's Witnesses if you are wondering what my religion is...]


My first guess of non Trinity religion while reading your post was Arianism.

I'll take that as a signal to cut down on reading up on history on Wikipedia :)
Ryan
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Postby Ryan » Feb 22, 2011 1:58

I was going to guess Unitarian myself. You were much closer. : )
counting_pine
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Postby counting_pine » Feb 23, 2011 0:06

My personal feeling is that this thread can remain open as long as it doesn't turn into a flame-war. I think you guys have done well so far.

To throw in my cent, I'm a Christian. I believe that the Bible is truth, though I don't think I will ever, in my own understanding, be able to fully understand everything in it. But this is not my main concern, because there are parts that make perfect sense to me, but I still have problems living in light of them.

I would say this in defence of Christianity: I do know that every world view has parts that are difficult to understand or accept - I know this because the atheistic world view has its own difficulties, and atheism claims to be the most logical choice, so evidently no theistic world view can be without difficulties either.

I think - hopefully without controversy - that there is "one truth" - i.e. there are definitive, absolute, true, non-contradictory answers for any conceivable question. So there is one world view (possibly, but not necessarily, widely accepted) which holds to that truth, and for which any difficulties we perceive in it can be explained fully.

I believe this world view is, in essence, Christianity, because I believe it has less fundamental difficulties than any other world view I can think of. I think it has the best understanding of the nature of God, and of the nature of humanity and sin. Over the course of the Bible and world history, these have collided in some complex and spectacular ways.
Galeon
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Postby Galeon » Feb 23, 2011 0:35

marcov wrote:
Galeon wrote:We don't believe in the Trinity, and if I'll ask a Christian with a different religion, he will surely not agree with me.
...
[I'm a Jehovah's Witnesses if you are wondering what my religion is...]


My first guess of non Trinity religion while reading your post was Arianism.

I'll take that as a signal to cut down on reading up on history on Wikipedia :)


Wikipedia is not reliable about my religion, one thing is that we're not forced much in doing the rules. It depends on you on what the limit is.
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Postby vdecampo » Feb 23, 2011 0:55

I was born into the Roman Catholic church but have since become "Born Again" and don't really follow any particular church. My view of the Bible (Old Testament) is that of The Almighty Creator trying to explain all of creation to Man of 1500BC. Certainly he had to simplify many concepts to make things understandable. Surely he knew we would eventually progress intellectually and be able to fit those initial concepts into our modern understandings.

$0.02
-Vince
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Postby rolliebollocks » Feb 23, 2011 1:26

I think - hopefully without controversy - that there is "one truth" - i.e. there are definitive, absolute, true, non-contradictory answers for any conceivable question. So there is one world view (possibly, but not necessarily, widely accepted) which holds to that truth, and for which any difficulties we perceive in it can be explained fully.


Even mathematical questions have multiple strategies to get to the answer. Some mathematical questions have more than one answer.

I think it's wrong to equate religion to "an answer". It think it's closer to a "strategy", a "system" or a "method" and has all the fundamental attributes of a language.

The question of God is more analogous to geometry as a discipline than it is to "how many radii are in a circumference".

As a strategy, it will have its advantages and disadvantages. For some problems it will excel, for others it will struggle.

If there was one true religion, it would necessarily be one that recognized the myriad of different people on this earth, and all the different problems that they struggle with, and then adapted the best strategies of all available to 1.) their specific personality and 2.) the question or struggle that they needed help with.

For instance, if someone is having a problem with jealousy, I would recommend four doses of Buddhism.
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Postby marcov » Feb 23, 2011 9:20

Born Catholic, but stopped praticising over 20 years ago.

Atheist in practice.
dodicat
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Postby dodicat » Feb 23, 2011 11:37

vdecampo wrote:I was born into the Roman Catholic church but have since become "Born Again" and don't really follow any particular church. My view of the Bible (Old Testament) is that of The Almighty Creator trying to explain all of creation to Man of 1500BC. Certainly he had to simplify many concepts to make things understandable. Surely he knew we would eventually progress intellectually and be able to fit those initial concepts into our modern understandings.

$0.02
-Vince

Why do we always think that people of a bygone age (1500BC), were in any way less able to understand concepts than people now?
I would suggest the opposite, people now are so far removed from nature that it has become dangerous for this biosphere, we have lost understanding, knowledge and respect.
He (GOD) will make no progress now with us, for his words now fall on a deaf greedy species who's population is rising exponentially.
The bible predicts Armageddon, this surely must be the case, we can see it now all around us now, and it is fast approaching.
Sorry to seem so gloomy, but everybody, in their inner self, knows that we are living in Fool's Paradise, for we don't have the ability to shake off (pride, avarice, lust, envy, gluttony, anger, sloth), the seven DEADLY sins.
We ignore them at our peril.
Modern understanding is an abstract noun which is meaningless, for in 1000 years from now, if we still exist, all we know now will have been superceded by a different knowledge.

This is Dodicat's tuppence worth.

(Protestant Presbyterian Church of Scotland, a church with no leader, neither Pope nor Monarch, it is guided only by it's elders, and a moderator and follows the Four books of the New testament), not unlike FreeBASIC in some respects.
I don't attend Church.
roook_ph
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Postby roook_ph » Feb 23, 2011 11:57

As a game programmer you sometime think you are god sometime. The problem with biblical discussion is this is an international forum and we differ in customs and cultures so a catholic here is different elsewhere. It is a good topic if you want to skip time and just listen to what other people say but when someone say something that hurts your culture or religion thats when you begin to react and emotion is not an easy thing to control.
vdecampo
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Postby vdecampo » Feb 23, 2011 13:37

dodicat wrote:Why do we always think that people of a bygone age (1500BC), were in any way less able to understand concepts than people now? I would suggest the opposite, people now are so far removed from nature that it has become dangerous for this biosphere, we have lost understanding, knowledge and respect.


I was hoping this thread would avoid comments on other people's postings and just allow for people to express their belief systems FYI and not debate or have to defend them. But since my beliefs have been challenged I will now defend why I believe the way I do.

Atom
The concept of the atom was not even conceived of until the 5th century AD (1500 years after Moses). Surely God could not have explained material science in terms of atom combinations or reactions.

DNA
DNA was discovered in 1869 (almost 3500 years after Moses), so God surely could not explain the laws of life He set in motion in these terms but rather simply that we are created from dirt molded in his hands. Simple yet accurate.

Physics (Study of the Natural World)
Today physics investigates many of the forces of nature, from gravity to the strong nuclear force. Neutrons, protons, and quarks have all been discovered and every day we learn more about His creations. However the Bible does not mention any of these things and always gives the most basic explanations. They only make sense when applied to our current understandings.

Carbon Dating
With our understandings of the physics of God's universe we now are able to perform measurements of dates of organic material that stretches back billions of years. Ancient Man had almost no concept of numbers this large. Dates given for the age of the Earth at 6000 years were meant to impress the great age of the Earth, but we now are able to comprehend the true measure of how ancient it is.

I have found this merging of Biblical teaching and Science to be the most rational way for me to reconcile what my reality is.

I do not press this understanding on anyone else nor do I seek to invalidate anyone else's system of belief. I merely express it here so others may know my solution.

-Vince
dodicat
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Postby dodicat » Feb 23, 2011 14:02

Sorry vdecampo.
It was "Temptation", and I was forgetting the Lord's Prayer.
These technologies you mention are of course important and can be merged with belief.
You are obviously much younger than me and are exploring the world through different eyes.
I have found myself becoming a bit cynical, which is not a good trait.

Our ancestors made us, so should we make them out to be barbaric or stupid, when we are not there with them to understand their predicament?

Personally I would say that humans in all past generations were just like us, trying to improve their lot, and yearning for a little peace and harmony so that they could rear a family and enjoy the gift of life.
vdecampo
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Postby vdecampo » Feb 23, 2011 14:26

dodicat wrote:Sorry vdecampo.
It was "Temptation", and I was forgetting the Lord's Prayer.
These technologies you mention are of course important and can be merged with belief.[


No problem. :)

You are obviously much younger than me and are exploring the world through different eyes.
I have found myself becoming a bit cynical, which is not a good trait.


Well I am 41, so you must be an old fart!

Our ancestors made us, so should we make them out to be barbaric or stupid, when we are not there with them to understand their predicament?


I believe everything must be judged in context. Was George Washington bad for having slaves? That was the way the world worked back then.

Personally I would say that humans in all past generations were just like us, trying to improve their lot, and yearning for a little peace and harmony so that they could rear a family and enjoy the gift of life.


Agreed!

-Vince

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