Off Topic / Religion -> Bible chat rooms? [Closed]

BasicCoder2 · Post by **BasicCoder2** » Feb 24, 2011 19:20

[delete]

rolliebollocks · Post by **rolliebollocks** » Feb 24, 2011 19:30

- why am I here?

Buddhism sucks at this question. It's so pragmatic in its accent. It prefers not to ponder such questions, as they speak to some imbalance in your psyche that demands an answer.

Buddhism proper disregards the question of why entirely, preferring to focus on how.

- what is my main priority/priorities in life?

The priority is to live in accord with the 8 fold path, which is simple guide to proper conduct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path

According to those who follow the "Big Ferry boat" interpretation of Buddhism, a failure to live in accord with these virtues condemns you to be reincarnated in the world-order, which is this, right now here. A soul that has perfected itself by following the little ferry boat, has freed itself from want/desire, and is thus eligible to gain entry to Nirvana.

Another interpretation is that Nirvana is a state of enlightenment that can be attained here on earth through meditation and discipline.

- (why) is jealousy a problem?

Jealousy is a form of suffering that is caused by desire, a desire to possess something that someone else has. If we rid ourself of said desire, we will cure ourself of our suffering, according to Buddhism.

Note how this differs from Christian/Judaic treatments, which focus on the havoc envy reeks on the social order (Cain & Abel for instance).

I'm not saying Buddhism is better, but Christianity maintains that we will experience jealousy no matter what, and acting on it is this sin. Thus it becomes a matter of restraint.

- what is the solution?

The solution in general is to rid yourself of ego-consciousness that covets.

- why should I trust it?

Unless living in this world is as painful to you as having your hair on fire, you just deal with the fact that you're going to suffer, and hopefully with the knowledge that it is caused by want, you can gain the perspective necessary to focus your want on the things that are truly important to you...

...

Personally, I find Buddhism's relationship to desire a little demoralizing, because desire is a force of nature, and a source of energy, but there have been times in my life when taking a detached approach to situations has greatly benefited me.

From an artistic standpoint, Buddhism is impoverished. The Bible is far more interesting being essentially a composition of several hundred narratives. Instead of getting all the different perspectives on God, as you do with the Bible, you get one perspective telling you that if you are in despair, their is a cure.

This is why two separate religions have formed, the religion of ascetics (little ferry boat) and those of the general public (the big ferry boat). Reincarnation plays a role only in the big ferry boat, where once you die, you are sucked in to one of the lesser Buddhist hells to be purged of your sins, or perhaps reincarnated into a soul whose fate has been ordained to suffer the sufferings he caused during his life.

The religion of ascetics is too cold and remote, refuses to answer the big questions, and leaves people in general feeling like they're going through the motions. This is because that religion was designed for people who were suffering to such a degree that suicide seemed a viable option. Buddhism offers then a way to kill themselves without killing their body, ie: ego death.

dodicat · Post by **dodicat** » Feb 24, 2011 20:16

rolliebollocks wrote:@Vince

I guess, I'm on the other side of this thing. Maybe the universe is a perpetual motion machine. Or maybe it will reach a state of equilibrium. The fact that it is constantly changing size prevents this from happening, I think.

Maybe we are dealing with a finite, circular set, so that any cause can be taken as the first cause.

Each effect becomes a cause along the chain. Cause and Effect only describe the relationship of one event to another.

They say that the universe operates via Entropy.
Everything in it tends towards a state of decay.
Life I would say momentarily reverses this trend by re-building complicated molecules, which in return will decay (dust to dust), but re-build again in following generations.
Where Gravity may be a warp in space time, Life may be a warp in Entropy.

Life, being all species on this planet, and ephemeral in the history of everything.

They say that Earth is but a training ground for the Gods. The biosphere survives by species killing and eating other species..
It is truly a desperate place is it not, where murder and cannibalism prevail?

The Gods train here for that reason, it is probably the most vile place within many parsecs.
Once they have experienced this place, they will be well prepared for anywhere.

I would say that Buddhism is the creme de la creme of religions.
Their stint on earth is a passport to a better place, and if they do not perform well here on one visit, they are sent right back here for another session.
Thank your God that one of the main bio power-houses on Earth ( The Tibetian plateau ) is under Buddist jurisdiction, for at least the animals there are treated with respect and can rear their young without fear of being murdered for fun, and life can re-generate the way Mother Earth intended.

We have a God because we know we are living in a hellish place in a narrow seedy alleyway of eternity, and our God is our contact in a better place, our God having been trained here of course, initially.

vdecampo · Post by **vdecampo** » Feb 24, 2011 20:30

Life I would say momentarily reverses this trend by re-building complicated molecules, which in return will decay (dust to dust), but re-build again in following generations.

It takes energy to organize chaotic atomic elements into an organized life-form. In a closed system the available energy will eventually run out.

-Vince

Eponasoft · Post by **Eponasoft** » Feb 24, 2011 21:04

It does not take more faith to say that there is no God. It takes far more to say that there is, because when you say that there is a God, what you're doing is making an unfounded assertion. Facts require proof; there is absolutely no proof of any deities of any kind. There cannot be evidence for what doesn't exist, and while the lack of evidence doesn't prove the opposite in and of itself, the lack of this same evidence over the entire course of humanity's existence (many thousands of years) most certainly does. And when you start reading holy books from a logical point of view, you'll see how quickly they descend into... well, let's be honest... utter BS.

So, ask yourself this question... do you believe in Zeus? Odin? Krishna? Mythras? Marilith? Asrael? Asmodeus? Mephistoles? Sat-Tan? Baalzebul? Neptune? What.... no? Oh. So then, if you don't believe in all these other gods and spiritual beings that others have fiercely believed in and fought and died for over throughout history, what makes yours so special? And specifically, what makes yours "correct"?

By the way rolliebollocks, yes, I am both atheist and antitheist (one who is both is generally referred to as a "militant atheist"). I see religion as nothing more than ancient superstition that the world would be a much better place without. We don't need the writings of ancient snake oil salesmen to tell us not to kill our neighbors, especially when they were doing it themselves right after they put down their feathers. Of course, the difference between me and those creeps who go around trying to convert people to their religion is that I know that you cannot "convert" people to nontheism... one has to find their own way to freedom. You can only convert people to theism, and only by preying on their own fears and making it seem like life is magically better under the umbrella of your religious dogma. So I don't bother "converting" people... if you cannot handle the harsh reality of life, then I say stay under your religious umbrella of emotional protection. Becoming an atheist is scary at first, especially when you've been groomed to believe in a higher power and an afterlife... that comfort disappears and you're left with the cold facts, and they are not forgiving. But when you take that and realize that this is life and what's next is what you make it, you'll wonder why you were ever kept back by these fantasies to begin with...

BasicCoder2 · Post by **BasicCoder2** » Feb 24, 2011 21:16

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dodicat · Post by **dodicat** » Feb 24, 2011 23:24

vdecampo wrote:
Life I would say momentarily reverses this trend by re-building complicated molecules, which in return will decay (dust to dust), but re-build again in following generations.
It takes energy to organize chaotic atomic elements into an organized life-form. In a closed system the available energy will eventually run out.

-Vince

Sticks and stones can break your bones, but names will never hurt you.

Code: Select all

Declare Sub rotate(Byval pivot_x As Double,_   'turns about this point
           Byval pivot_y As Double,_
           Byval first_x As Double,_    'centre for circles
           Byval first_y As Double,_
           Byval second_x As Double, _   'radius for circles
           Byval second_y As Double, _   'aspect
           Byval arc_1 As Double,_       'arcs only for circle, 0 for lines
           Byval arc_2 As Double,_
           Byval angle As Double, _      'all below for circles and lines
           Byval magnifier As Double,_
           Byval dilator As Double,_
           Byval colour As Integer,_
           Byval thickness As Double,_
           Byref shape As String,_
           image As Any Pointer=0)
        Dim Shared np(1 To 4) As Double   
 Declare  Sub paintstring(x As Double,_
           y As Double,_
           s As String,_
           size As Double,_
           c As Uinteger,_
           line_angle As Double=0,_
           char_angle As Double=0,_
           thickness_tweak As Double=1,_
           image As Any Pointer=0)
  ' ___________________________________________________________  
  Screen 20,32',,1

  type point2d
      as double x,y
      as uinteger col
      as uinteger asci
      as string char
  end type
  dim shared as point2d p1(1 to 45),p2(1 to 45)
  Dim Shared As Double next_x,next_y
 
  
  sub storeline1(col as uinteger)
       next_x=5:next_y=100
      restore data1
  For x As Integer=1 To 45
      read p1(x).asci'u(x)
      p1(x).char=chr(p1(x).asci)
      if p1(x).asci=124 then next_x=5
      p1(x).x=next_x:p1(x).y=next_y:p1(x).col=rgb(200,100,200)
      paintstring(next_x,next_y,p1(x).char,.8,col)
   next x 
end sub
 sub storeline2(col as uinteger)
     next_x=5:next_y=300
      restore data2
  For x As Integer=1 To 45
      read p2(x).asci'u(x)
      p2(x).char=chr(p2(x).asci)
      if p2(x).asci=124 then next_x=5
      p2(x).x=next_x:p2(x).y=next_y:p2(x).col=rgb(00,00,0)
      paintstring(next_x,next_y,p2(x).char,.8,col)
   next x 
end sub
sub writeline1(p() as point2d)
    for x as integer=1 to 45
        paintstring(p(x).x,p(x).y,p1(x).char,.8,p(x).col)
    next x
end sub

sub writeline2(p() as point2d)
    for x as integer=1 to 45
        paintstring(p(x).x,p(x).y,p2(x).char,.8,p(x).col)
    next x
end sub
   
   storeline1 rgb(0,0,0)
   storeline2 rgb(0,0,0)
   

   dim temp(1 to 45) as string
   dim as double dx,dy,sx,sy,temp2
   for x1 as integer=1 to 45
       
       for x2 as integer=1 to 45

           if temp(x2)<>p1(x1).char then
           if p1(x1).char=p2(x2).char then
               temp(x2)=p1(x1).char
               dx=p2(x2).x-p1(x1).x
               dy=p2(x2).y-p1(x1).y
               temp2=sqr(dx^2+dy^2)
               dx=dx/temp2:dy=dy/temp2
              
                  for z as single=0 to temp2 step 10
                    screenlock
                   cls 
                    writeline1(p1())
                   sx=p1(x1).x+z*dx
                   sy=p1(x1).y+z*dy
                 paintstring(sx,sy,p2(x2).char,.8,p1(x2).col)
                 writeline2(p2())
             screenunlock
             sleep 1,1
            next z
            p2(x2).col=p1(x2).col
               exit for
           end if
           end if
       next x2
   next x1
   cls
   writeline1(p1())
   writeline2(p2())
   paintstring 300,500,"END",2,rgb(0,200,0)
   '__________________________________________________          
 Sleep          
  DATA1:
data 84,72,69,32,69,78,68,32,79,70,32,84,72,69,32,87,79,82,76,68,32,73,83,32,78,73,71,_
72,44,32,124,40,65,68,79,76, 70,32,72,73,84,76,69,82,41
DATA2:
data 32,72,69,73,76,32,79,76,68,32,70,65,82,84,44,32,32,68,79,87,78,32,84,72,73,83,32,_
72,79,76,69,32,124,40,70,82,73,71,72,84,69,78,69,68,41
 'SUBS________________________________          
Sub rotate(Byval pivot_x As Double,_   'turns about this point
           Byval pivot_y As Double,_
           Byval first_x As Double,_    'centre for circles
           Byval first_y As Double,_
           Byval second_x As Double, _   'radius for circles
           Byval second_y As Double, _   'aspect
           Byval arc_1 As Double,_       'arcs only for circle, 0 for lines
           Byval arc_2 As Double,_
           Byval angle As Double, _      'all below for circles and lines
           Byval magnifier As Double,_
           Byval dilator As Double,_
           Byval colour As Integer,_
           Byval thickness As Double,_
           Byref shape As String,_
           image As Any Pointer=0)
           'rotated line is  (np(1),np(2))-(np(3),np(4))
           'rotated circle centre is np(3),np(4)
           'shape:
           'line - draws the line
           'linepoint - does the calculation, draws nothing
           'linepointset - does the calculations, sets a pixel at the line ends
           'ALSO circle,circlepoint, circlepointset,box, boxfill, circlefill.
           'arcs from horizontal positive x axis in DEGREES
           'arc1<arc2 always e.g from 330 to 430
  shape=Lcase$(shape)      
Dim p As Double = 4*Atn(1)  '(pi)
Dim radians As Double
Dim line_xvector As Double
Dim line_yvector As Double
Dim pivot_xvector As Double
Dim pivot_yvector As Double
Dim th As Double
  th=thickness
  Dim sx As Double=second_x
  angle=angle Mod 360
radians=(2*p/360)*angle      'change from degrees to radians
#Macro thickline(t)
Dim As Double s,h,c
Dim As Uinteger prime=Rgb(255,255,255)
h=Sqr(((np(1))-(np(3)))^2+((np(2))-(np(4)))^2)
s=((np(4))-np(2))/h
c=(np(1)-(np(3)))/h
Line image, (np(3)+s*t/2,np(4)+c*t/2)-(np(1)+s*t/2,np(2)+c*t/2),prime
Line image, (np(3)-s*t/2,np(4)-c*t/2)-(np(1)-s*t/2,np(2)-c*t/2),prime
Line image, (np(3)+s*t/2,np(4)+c*t/2)-(np(3)-s*t/2,np(4)-c*t/2),prime
Line image, (np(1)+s*t/2,np(2)+c*t/2)-(np(1)-s*t/2,np(2)-c*t/2),prime
Paint image,((np(3)+np(1))/2, (np(4)+np(2))/2),prime,prime

Line image, (np(3)+s*t/2,np(4)+c*t/2)-(np(1)+s*t/2,np(2)+c*t/2),colour
Line image, (np(3)-s*t/2,np(4)-c*t/2)-(np(1)-s*t/2,np(2)-c*t/2),colour
Line image, (np(3)+s*t/2,np(4)+c*t/2)-(np(3)-s*t/2,np(4)-c*t/2),colour
Line image, (np(1)+s*t/2,np(2)+c*t/2)-(np(1)-s*t/2,np(2)-c*t/2),colour
Paint image,((np(3)+np(1))/2, (np(4)+np(2))/2), colour, colour
#EndMacro

#macro thickcircle(t)
Dim As Uinteger prime=Rgb(255,255,255)
Dim As Double xp1,xp2,yp1,yp2
Dim arc1 As Double=arc_1*p/180
Dim arc2 As Double=arc_2*p/180
arc1=2*p+(arc1-(radians))
arc2=2*p+(arc2-(radians))
sx=sx*magnifier
If arc1=arc2 Then
     Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx+t/2,prime,,,second_y
    Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx-t/2,prime,,,second_y
    Paint image,(np(3),np(4)+sx),prime,prime
    Paint image,(np(3)+sx,np(4)),prime,prime
    Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx+t/2,colour,,,second_y
    Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx-t/2,colour,,,second_y
    Paint image,(np(3),np(4)+sx),colour,colour
    Paint image,(np(3)+sx,np(4)),colour,colour
End If
If arc1<>arc2 Then
    xp1=np(3)+(sx)*Cos(.5*(arc2+arc1))
yp1=np(4)-(sx)*Sin(.5*(arc2+arc1))
Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx+t/2,prime,arc1,arc2,second_y
    Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx-t/2,prime,arc1,arc2,second_y
    Line image,(np(3)+(sx+t/2)*Cos(arc1),np(4)-(sx+t/2)*Sin(arc1))-(np(3)+(sx-t/2)*Cos(arc1),np(4)-(sx-t/2)*Sin(arc1)),prime
    Line image,(np(3)+(sx+t/2)*Cos(arc2),np(4)-(sx+t/2)*Sin(arc2))-(np(3)+(sx-t/2)*Cos(arc2),np(4)-(sx-t/2)*Sin(arc2)),prime

    Paint image,(xp1,yp1),prime,prime
    
Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx+t/2,colour,arc1,arc2,second_y
    Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),sx-t/2,colour,arc1,arc2,second_y
    Line image,(np(3)+(sx+t/2)*Cos(arc1),np(4)-(sx+t/2)*Sin(arc1))-(np(3)+(sx-t/2)*Cos(arc1),np(4)-(sx-t/2)*Sin(arc1)),colour
    Line image,(np(3)+(sx+t/2)*Cos(arc2),np(4)-(sx+t/2)*Sin(arc2))-(np(3)+(sx-t/2)*Cos(arc2),np(4)-(sx-t/2)*Sin(arc2)),colour

    Paint image,(xp1,yp1),colour,colour
   
End If
#endmacro

magnifier=dilator*magnifier      
pivot_xvector=first_x-pivot_x
pivot_yvector=first_y-pivot_y
pivot_xvector=dilator*pivot_xvector  
pivot_yvector=dilator*pivot_yvector 
Dim mover(1 To 2,1 To 2) As Double
Dim new_pos(1 To 2) As Double
mover(1,1)=Cos(radians)
mover(2,2)=Cos(radians)
mover(1,2)=-Sin(radians)
mover(2,1)=Sin(radians)

line_xvector=magnifier*(second_x-first_x)                   'get the vector
line_yvector=magnifier*(second_y-first_y)                   'get the vector

new_pos(1)=mover(1,1)*pivot_xvector+mover(1,2)*pivot_yvector +pivot_x
new_pos(2)=mover(2,1)*pivot_xvector+mover(2,2)*pivot_yvector +pivot_y
Dim new_one(1 To 2) As Double            'To hold the turned value

new_one(1)=mover(1,1)*line_xvector+mover(1,2)*line_yvector +first_x
new_one(2)=mover(2,1)*line_xvector+mover(2,2)*line_yvector +first_y
Dim xx As Double   'translation
Dim yy As Double 
xx=first_x-new_pos(1)
yy=first_y-new_pos(2)
np(1)=new_one(1)-xx  
  np(2)=new_one(2)-yy   
  np(3)=first_x-xx
 np(4)=first_y-yy
Select Case shape
Case "line"
    If th<2 Then
 Line image,(np(3),np(4))-(np(1),np(2)),colour 
Else
 thickline(th)   
 End If
Case "circle"
    Dim arc1 As Double=arc_1*p/180
Dim arc2 As Double=arc_2*p/180
    If arc1=arc2 Then
    If th<=3 Then
        For n As Double=magnifier*sx-1 To magnifier*sx+1 Step .5
     Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),n,colour,,,second_y       
 'circle image,(np(3),np(4)),magnifier*sx,colour,,,second_y
 Next n
Else
 thickcircle(th)
End If
Endif
If arc1<>arc2 Then
If th<=3 Then
    arc1=2*p+(arc1-(radians))'new
arc2=2*p+(arc2-(radians))'new
    For n As Double=magnifier*sx-1 To magnifier*sx+1 Step .5
     Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),n,colour,arc1,arc2,second_y   
   ' circle image,(np(3),np(4)),magnifier*sx,colour,arc1,arc2,second_y
    Next n
Else
    thickcircle(th)
End If
End If
Case "circlefill"
    Dim As Double xp1,xp2,yp1,yp2
Dim As Uinteger prime=Rgb(255,255,255)
Dim arc1 As Double=arc_1*p/180
Dim arc2 As Double=arc_2*p/180
If arc1=arc2 Then Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),magnifier*sx,colour,,,second_y,F
If arc1<>arc2 Then

 xp1=np(3)+magnifier*sx*Cos(.5*(arc2+arc1))*3/4
yp1=np(4)-magnifier*sx*Sin(.5*(arc2+arc1))*3/4   
Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),magnifier*sx,prime,arc1,arc2,second_y
Line image,(np(3),np(4))-(np(3)+magnifier*sx*Cos(arc2),np(4)-magnifier*sx*Sin(arc2)),prime
Line image,(np(3),np(4))-(np(3)+magnifier*sx*Cos(arc1),np(4)-magnifier*sx*Sin(arc1)),prime
Paint image,(xp1,yp1),prime,prime

Circle image,(np(3),np(4)),magnifier*sx,colour,arc1,arc2,second_y
Line image,(np(3),np(4))-(np(3)+magnifier*sx*Cos(arc2),np(4)-magnifier*sx*Sin(arc2)),colour
Line image,(np(3),np(4))-(np(3)+magnifier*sx*Cos(arc1),np(4)-magnifier*sx*Sin(arc1)),colour
Paint image,(xp1,yp1),colour,colour
End If
 Case"box"
 Line image,(np(3),np(4))-(np(1),np(2)),colour,b
Case "boxfill"
 Line image,(np(3),np(4))-(np(1),np(2)),colour,bf
        Case "linepoint","circlepoint"
  'nothing drawn
Case "linepointset","circlepointset"
 If shape="linepointset" Then
 Pset image,(np(1),np(2)),colour
 Pset image,(np(3),np(4)),colour
 Endif
 If shape="circlepointset" Then
     Pset image,(np(3),np(4)),colour
 End If

        Case Else
 Print "unknown rotation shape"
End Select 
End Sub



Sub paintstring(x As Double,_
           y As Double,_
           s As String,_
           size As Double,_
           c As Uinteger,_
           line_angle As Double=0,_
           char_angle As Double=0,_
           thickness_tweak As Double=1,_
           image As Any Pointer=0)
Dim l As Integer=Len(s)
Dim px As Double=16*size+x
y=y+16*size
Dim py As Double=y'16*size+y
Dim z As Integer=0
Dim th As Double'=4
th=((.5-size)/4.5+5)*thickness_tweak
Dim sp As Double=6
Dim sp2 As Double=6
Dim pi As Double=4*Atn(1)
Dim la As Double=(line_angle *.5) 
Dim ca As Double=(char_angle*.5) 
sp2=sp2+30*Abs(Sin(ca*pi/180-la*pi/180))

#macro set(x1,y1,x2,y2,sarc,earc,shape,im)
rotate(px,py,x1,y1,x2,y2,sarc,earc,-char_angle,1,size,c,th*size,shape,im)
#endmacro

#macro spaces(xpixels,ypixels)
px=px+(xpixels*size+sp2*size)*Cos(line_angle*pi/180)
py=py-(ypixels*size+sp2*size)*Sin(line_angle*pi/180)
next_x=px-16*size
next_y=py-16*size
#endmacro

For n As Integer=1 To l
    
    Select Case Mid$(s,n,1)
    Case " "
 spaces(30,30)

 
Case "|"
 z=z+1
 px=(x+16*size+z*16*Sin(line_angle*pi/180))+1.3*z*(24*size+size*sp*size)*Sin(line_angle*pi/180)
 py=(y+z*16*Cos(line_angle*pi/180))+1.3*z*(24*size+size*sp*size)*Cos(line_angle*pi/180)
 next_x=px-16*size
next_y=py-16*size
Case "1"
 set(px-8,py-18,px-8,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-8,py-16,px-12,py-8,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(12,12)
Case "2"
 set(px-2,py-8,9,1,310,530,"circle",image)'curve
 set(px-15,py+14,px+5,py-2,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-16,py+14,px+10,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
 spaces(28,28)
Case "3"
 set(px-2,py-7,9,1,300,530,"circle",image)'curve top
 set(px-2,py+6,9,1,190,395,"circle",image)'curve
 set(px-3,py,px+5,py,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(28,28)
Case "4"
 set(px-16,py+4,px+12,py+4,.0,.0,"line",image)'horiz 
 set(px-14,py+4,px+4,py-16,.0,.0,"line",image)'slope
 set(px+4,py-18,px+4,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(28,28)
Case "5"
 set(px-14,py-16,px+6,py-16,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+1,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-4,py+6,9,1,210,500,"circle",image)'curve
 spaces(28,28)
Case "6"
 set(px-2,py+6,9,1,360,360,"circle",image)'curve base
 set(px+16,py+4,27,1,130,180,"circle",image)'curve edge
 spaces(28,28)
Case "7"
 set(px-14,py-16,px+6,py-16,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
 set(px+5,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'slope
 spaces(26,26)
Case "8"
 set(px-2,py-7,9,1,320,575,"circle",image)'curve top
 set(px-2,py+6,9,1,130,415,"circle",image)'curve
 set(px-9,py-1,px+6,py-1,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(28,28)
 
Case "9"
 set(px-2,py-6,9,1,360,360,"circle",image)'top 
 set(px-20,py-4,27,1,310,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(28,28)
Case "0"
 set(px,py-1,15,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(36,36)
Case "."
 set(px-12,py+12,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(10,10)
Case "A"
 set(px,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px,py-16,px+12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-8,py+3,px+8,py+3,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(30,30)'36
 Case "a"
 set(px-4,py+4,10,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 set(px+6,py-8,px+6,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(26,26)
Case "B"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-14,px-5,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
  set(px-12,py+14,px-5,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
  set(px-5,py-6,8,1,290,450,"circle",image)'top loop
  set(px-5,py+6,8,1,270,430,"circle",image)'base loop
  set(px-12,py,px-2,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
  spaces(24,24)
Case "b"
    set(px-2,py+4,10,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(28,28)
Case "C"
    set(px,py,14,1,60,300,"circle",image)
    spaces(25,25)
Case "c"
    set(px-4,py+4,10,1,60,300,"circle",image)
    spaces(20,20)
    Case "D"
  set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-5,py,14,1,270,450,"circle",image)
 set(px-12,py-14,px-5,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)
  set(px-12,py+14,px-5,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)
  
  'rotate(px,py,px-24,py+20,px-24,py-20,0,0,-line_angle,1,size,rgb(255,0,0),1,"line",image)
 spaces(30,30)
Case "d"
 set(px-4,py+4,10,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 set(px+6,py-16,px+6,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(26,26)
Case "E"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-14,px+6,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
  set(px-12,py+14,px+6,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
  set(px-12,py,px-2,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
  spaces(25,25)
Case "e"
  set(px-4,py+4,10,1,0,320,"circle",image)
  set(px-12,py+3,px+8,py+3,.0,.0,"line",image)
  spaces(26,26)
Case "F"
  set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-14,px+6,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
  set(px-12,py,px-2,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
  spaces(24,24)
Case "f"
  set(px-2,py-8,10,1,0,170,"circle",image)'curve
 set(px-12,py-10,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-10,py,px-2,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
 spaces(28,28) 
Case "G"
  set(px,py,14,1,50,350,"circle",image)
  set(px,py,px+16,py,.0,.0,"line",image)
    spaces(35,35)
Case "g"
    set(px-4,py+4,10,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 set(px+6,py-6,px+6,py+20,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-4,py+17,10,1,230,345,"circle",image)
 
 spaces(26,26)
Case "H"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px+12,py-16,px+12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py,px+12,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
 spaces(32,32)
Case "h"
  'set(px-6,py+4,10,1,0,150,"circle",image)
  set(px-4,py+2,8,1,0,170,"circle",image)'curve right
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px+4,py,px+4,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(25,25)
Case "I"
 set(px,py+16,px,py-16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py+14,px+12,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-12,py-14,px+12,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(30,30)
Case "i"
  set(px-12,py-6,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
  set(px-12,py-14,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
  spaces(10,10)
Case "J"
    'set(px-2,py+4,12,1,200,270,"circle",image)
    set(px-7,py+8,7,1,220,355,"circle",image)
 set(px,py-16,px,py+9,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-14,px+12,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
 spaces(30,30)
Case "j"
 set(px,py-6,px,py+20,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-7,py+20,7,1,220,360,"circle",image)
 set(px,py-14,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(22,22)
Case "K"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px+6,py-16,px-12,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'upper
 set(px+6,py+16,px-6,py-3,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(25,25)
Case "k"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px+3,py-6,px-12,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'upper
 set(px,py+16,px-8,py-3,.0,.0,"line",image)'lower
 spaces(20,20)
Case "L"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py+14,px+6,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
 spaces(25,25)
Case "l"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 spaces(10,10)
Case "M"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px+12,py-16,px+12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'left arm
 set(px+12,py-16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'right arm
 
 spaces(32,32)
Case "m"
 set(px-6,py+2,6,1,0,170,"circle",image)'curve left
 set(px+6,py+2,6,1,0,170,"circle",image)'curve right
 set(px-12,py-5,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert left
 set(px+12,py,px+12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert right
 set(px,py+16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'mid arm
 spaces(32,32)
Case "N"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px+12,py-16,px+12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-16,px+12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
 spaces(32,32)
Case "n"
    set(px-4,py+2,8,1,0,170,"circle",image)'curve right
 set(px-12,py-5,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert left
 set(px+4,py+16,px+4,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'mid arm
 spaces(24,24)
Case "O"
 set(px,py,14,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(36,36)
Case "o"
 set(px-4,py+4,10,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 'set(px+6,py-16,px+6,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(26,26)
Case "P"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-14,px-5,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
  'set(px-12,py+14,px-5,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
  set(px-5,py-6,8,1,280,450,"circle",image)'top loop
  'set(px-5,py+6,10,1,270,430,"circle",image)'base loop
  set(px-12,py+2,px-2,py+2,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
  spaces(24,24)
Case "p"
 set(px-5,py+4,10,1,270,435,"circle",image)' loop
  set(px-14,py-5,px-2,py-5,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
 set(px-12,py+14,px-5,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
 set(px-12,py-6,px-12,py+26,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 spaces(24,24) 
Case "Q"
 set(px,py,14,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 set(px+5,py+20,16,1,400,460,"circle",image)
 spaces(36,36)
Case "q"
 set(px-5,py+6,10,1,110,270,"circle",image)' loop
 set(px-9,py-3,px+2,py-3,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
 set(px-8,py+16,px,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
 set(px,py-3,px,py+26,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 spaces(20,20)
Case "R"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-12,py-14,px-5,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
  'set(px-12,py+14,px-5,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
  set(px-5,py-6,8,1,290,450,"circle",image)'top loop
  'set(px-5,py+6,10,1,270,430,"circle",image)'base loop
  set(px-12,py+2,px-2,py+2,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
  set(px-8-1+3,py+1,px+12-8-1,py+16+1-2,.0,.0,"line",image)'slope
  spaces(24,24)
Case "r"
  set(px-4,py+4,10,1,30,130,"circle",image)
 set(px-12,py-8,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(24,24)
Case "S"
 set(px-2,py-7,8,1,20,240,"circle",image)'curve top
 set(px-2,py+6,8,1,200,500,"circle",image)'curve
 'set(px-9,py-1,px+6,py-1,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(26,26)
Case "s"
 set(px-4,py+4,10,1,40,140,"circle",image)'top
 set(px-1,py-4,10,1,180,240,"circle",image)'topslant
 set(px-6,py+14,10,1,20,100,"circle",image)'baseslant
 set(px-4,py+4,10,1,220,325,"circle",image)'base
 'set(px-12,py-4,px+2,py+12,.0,.0,"line",image)
 'set(px+6,py-8,px+6,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(26,26)
Case "T"
 set(px,py-12,px,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-16,py-12-2,px+16,py-12-2,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(34,34)
Case "t"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+10,.0,.0,"line",image)'edge
 set(px-12,py-4,px-2,py-4,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-4,py+4,10,1,210,320,"circle",image)
 spaces (24,24)
Case "U"
 set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+8,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px+12,py-16,px+12,py+8,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px,py,14,1,205,335,"circle",image)
 'set(px-12,py,px+12,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'middle
 spaces(33,33)
Case "u"
 set(px-4,py+4,10,1,210,360,"circle",image)
 set(px+6,py-6,px+6,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-12,py-6,px-12,py+10,.0,.0,"line",image)'left edge
 spaces(26,26)
Case "V"
 set(px,py+16,px-12,py-16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px,py+16,px+12,py-16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 'set(px-8,py+3,px+8,py+3,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(32,32)'36
            Case "v"
  set(px-12,py-6,px-4,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'left 
  set(px-4,py+16,px+4,py-6,.0,.0,"line",image)
  spaces(24,24) 
            Case "W"
   set(px-12,py-16,px-8,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert left
 set(px+12,py-16,px+8,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
 set(px-8,py+16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'left arm
 set(px+8,py+16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'right arm
 spaces(32,32)
            Case "w"
                    set(px-14,py-6,px-8,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert left
                    set(px+8,py+16,px+12,py-6,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert right
                    set(px-8,py+16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'left arm
 set(px+8,py+16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)'right arm
                    spaces(33,33)
        Case "X"
            set(px-12,py-16,px+12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
            set(px+12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
            spaces(32,32)
        Case "x"
            set(px-12,py-6,px+2,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
            set(px+2,py-6,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
            spaces(22,22)
        Case "Y"
            set(px-12,py-16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)
            set(px+12,py-16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)
            set(px,py,px,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
            spaces(32,32)
        Case "y"
               set(px-4,py+4,8,1,180,380,"circle",image)'top
 set(px+4,py-6,px+4,py+20,.0,.0,"line",image)'right
 set(px-6,py+17,10,1,230,345,"circle",image)'base
 set(px-12,py-6,px-12,py+4,.0,.0,"line",image)'left
 spaces(24,24)
Case "Z"
 set(px-12,py-14,px+12,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
 set(px-12,py+14,px+12,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px+10,py-14,px-10,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'slope
 spaces(30,30)
Case "z"
 set(px-16,py-4,px+2,py-4,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
 set(px-16,py+14,px+2,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
 set(px+1,py-5,px-14,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)'slope
 spaces(20,20)
            
 '************************************************                 
Case ","
 set(px-12,py+12,px-18,py+20,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-12,py+12,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(10,10)

 Case"£"
 set(px-5,py-5,8,1,40,220,"circle",image)'top
 set(px-19-5-5,py+10-5,18,1,320,390,"circle",image)
 set(px-16,py+16,px+8,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'base
 set(px-16,py+2,px,py+2,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(28,28)
Case "$"
  set(px-2,py-7,8,1,20,240,"circle",image)'curve top
 set(px-2,py+6,8,1,200,495,"circle",image)'curve
 set(px-2,py-17,px-2,py+17,.0,.0,"line",image)
 'set(px-9,py-1,px+6,py-1,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(26,26)
Case "%"
 set(px-10,py-10,6,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 set(px+10,py+10,6,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 set(px+8,py-8,px-8,py+8,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(33,33)
Case "^"
 set(px-14,py,px-7,py-16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-7,py-16,px,py,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(20,20)
 Case"&"
 set(px-2,py-7,8,1,70,220,"circle",image)'curve top
 set(px-2,py+6,8,1,110,415,"circle",image)'curve
 set(px-4-4-2,py-8,px+12-4,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
 'set(px-9,py-1,px+6,py-1,.0,.0,"line",image)
 spaces(28,28)
Case "*"
 set(px-12,py-6-8,px+2,py+16-8,.0,.0,"line",image)
            set(px+2,py-6-8,px-12,py+16-8,.0,.0,"line",image)
            set(px-16,py-3,px+6,py-3,.0,.0,"line",image)
            spaces(24,24)
        Case "("
            set(px+22,py,38,1,150,210,"circle",image)
            spaces(12,12)
        Case ")"
       set(px-22-16-6,py,38,1,330,390,"circle",image)
            spaces(12,12)
        Case "-"
            set(px-16,py,px+8,py,.0,.0,"line",image)
            spaces(26,26)
        Case "_"
            set(px-16,py+16,px+16,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
            spaces(34,34)
            Case "+"
            set(px-16,py,px+8,py,.0,.0,"line",image)
            set(px-4,py+12,px-4,py-12,.0,.0,"line",image)
            spaces(26,26)
        Case "="
        set(px-16,py-4,px+8,py-4,.0,.0,"line",image)
        set(px-16,py+4,px+8,py+4,.0,.0,"line",image)
        spaces(26,26)
    Case "!"
        set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+6,.0,.0,"line",image)
        set(px-12,py+12,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
        spaces(10,10)
    Case "¬"
    set(px-16,py+4,px+8,py+4,.0,.0,"line",image)
    set(px+6,py+4,px+6,py+12,.0,.0,"line",image)
    spaces(26,26)
Case "`"
    set(px-16,py-16,px-12,py-12,.0,.0,"line",image)
    spaces(8,8)
Case ";"
    set(px-12,py-4,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)'top
  set(px-12,py+12,px-18,py+20,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-12,py+12,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(10,10) 
Case ":"
   set(px-12,py-4,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)'top
  'set(px-12,py+12,px-18,py+20,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-12,py+12,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(10,10)
Case "@"
 set(px,py,14,1,0,290,"circle",image)
 set(px+6,py,7,1,100,365,"circle",image)
 spaces(36,36)
Case "'"
 set(px-12,py-12,px-18,py-4,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-12,py-12,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(10,10)
Case "#"
 set(px-16,py-4,px+8,py-4,.0,.0,"line",image)
set(px-16,py+4,px+8,py+4,.0,.0,"line",image)
set(px-8,py-12,px-8,py+12,.0,.0,"line",image)
set(px,py-12,px,py+12,.0,.0,"line",image)
        spaces(26,26)
    Case "~"
  set(px-8,py+16,14,1,60,120,"circle",image)
  set(px+4,py-8,14,1,240,300,"circle",image)
  spaces(30,30)
Case "/"
  set(px+14,py-16,px-14,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
  spaces(34,34)
Case ""
  set(px-14,py-16,px+14,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)
  spaces(34,34)
Case "["
  set(px-12,py-16,px-12,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
  set(px-12,py-14,px-4,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
  set(px-12,py+14,px-4,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)
  spaces(14,14)
Case "]"
  set(px-4,py-16,px-4,py+16,.0,.0,"line",image)'vert
  set(px-4,py-14,px-12,py-14,.0,.0,"line",image)'top
  set(px-12,py+14,px-4,py+14,.0,.0,"line",image)
  spaces(16,16)
Case "{"
  set(px+12,py-8,28,1,160,200,"circle",image)
  set(px+12,py+8,28,1,160,200,"circle",image)
            spaces(8,8)
Case "}"
  set(px-12-16-6,py-8,28,1,340,380,"circle",image)
  set(px-12-16-6,py+8,28,1,340,380,"circle",image)
            spaces(14,14)
Case "<"
    set(px-16,py,px+4,py-12,.0,.0,"line",image)
    set(px-16,py,px+4,py+12,.0,.0,"line",image)
    spaces(24,24)
Case ">"
    set(px+4,py,px-16,py-12,.0,.0,"line",image)
    set(px+4,py,px-16,py+12,.0,.0,"line",image)
    spaces(24,24)
Case "?"
     set(px-5,py-6,8,1,280,490,"circle",image)'top loop
     set(px-4,py,px-4,py+8,.0,.0,"line",image)
     set(px-4,py+15,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
     spaces(24,24)
     Case """"
  set(px-12,py-16,px-18,py-8,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-12,py-16,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 
 set(px-4,py-16,px-10,py-8,.0,.0,"line",image)
 set(px-4,py-16,1,1,360,360,"circle",image)
 spaces(16,16)  
  Case Else
    Draw String(px,py),"?",c
    spaces(24,24)
    End Select
    Next n
End Sub
'************************* END OF PAINTSTRING ******************************

rolliebollocks · Post by **rolliebollocks** » Feb 24, 2011 23:32

It does not take more faith to say that there is no God. It takes far more to say that there is, because when you say that there is a God, what you're doing is making an unfounded assertion.

You are doing the same thing when you say "there is no god", making an assertion that cannot be proven.

So, ask yourself this question... do you believe in Zeus? Odin? Krishna? Mythras? Marilith? Asrael? Asmodeus? Mephistoles? Sat-Tan? Baalzebul? Neptune? What.... no? Oh. So then, if you don't believe in all these other gods and spiritual beings that others have fiercely believed in and fought and died for over throughout history, what makes yours so special? And specifically, what makes yours "correct"?

I walk into a room, I see the floor is covered in dominoes, lined up together side by side, knocked over in a chain reaction so that each one is resting on the one before it. And I think to myself, well it wasn't me, it wasn't Joe, it wasn't Frank, it wasn't Bob, it wasn't Rob and it wasn't Jesus, so no one could have knocked them over. They must have knocked themselves over. I wonder who put them there.

That's your argument in a nut shell.

The point is you can't make a valid case against the existence of God, and you can't make a valid case for the existence of God. Cold hard facts would leave you agnostic. You're arguments are against religion, and don't have any bearing on the existence of God at all.

Make your case.

@Dodicat

Yes, evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics which is interesting. Sciences have contradictions too. I like the idea that this is a breeding ground for gods. The Pythagoreans happened to believe something very similar.

I like the Zen tradition the best out of all the Buddhisms, have you ever heard of the Jains? They're the guys who take the really small steps because they're afraid of killing any insects? They're actually atheists. A cynic might say that it would take an atheist to have that much respect for life.

@Vince

It takes energy to organize chaotic atomic elements into an organized life-form. In a closed system the available energy will eventually run out.

According to Fransisco Varela, a biologist, life forms are functionally closed, but structurally open. The biosphere is almost certainly functionally open. It should last as long as the sun does. If we don't frak it up first.

Prime Productions · Post by **Prime Productions** » Feb 25, 2011 0:35

Eponasoft wrote:It does not take more faith to say that there is no God. It takes far more to say that there is, because when you say that there is a God, what you're doing is making an unfounded assertion. Facts require proof; there is absolutely no proof of any deities of any kind.

Ever heard of Anselm's argument?

When we hear the words "that than which a greater cannot be thought", we understand what the words convey, and what we understand exists in our thoughts. This then exists either only in our thoughts or both in thought and reality. But it cannot exist only in our thoughts, because if it existed only in our thoughts, then we could think of something greater than it, since we could think of something than which a greater cannot be thought that exists both in thought and in reality, and it is a contradiction to suppose we could think of something greater than that than which nothing greater can be thought. Hence, that than which a greater cannot be thought exists both in thought and in reality.

There is also the problem of morality.

agamemnus · Post by **agamemnus** » Feb 25, 2011 0:57

Interesting read, BasicCoder2.

Eponasoft · Post by **Eponasoft** » Feb 25, 2011 0:59

Never heard of it, but after looking it up, it's easy to conclude that it's BS.

"If we can conceive of the greatest possible being, then it must exist."

Dragons must also exist then.

Mere thought of a "greatest being" is not proof of that being's existence. And this is exactly the kind of ancient superstition I was referring to. Anselm's ontological argument is over 900 years old. Take a look at Bertrand Russell's rebuttal.

What's the problem of morality?

By the way rolliebollocks, I can disprove God. But no believer will accept it as truth, so there's no point in even presenting a case for it since it will fall on deaf ears... or should I say... blind eyes.

And you trying to understand my point is comparing apples to cruise missiles. Nice try but you missed the mark completely.

vdecampo · Post by **vdecampo** » Feb 25, 2011 1:30

@rolliebollocks wrote:According to Fransisco Varela, a biologist, life forms are functionally closed, but structurally open. The biosphere is almost certainly functionally open. It should last as long as the sun does. If we don't frak it up first.

All systems are ultimately closed if they exist in this universe. Artificially marking a boundary such as a cell or biosphere does not change the laws of thermodynamics.

Eponasoft wrote:Dragons must also exist then.

Honestly, given the size of the universe, they probably do exists somewhere, just not here on Earth.

-Vince
Gravity - It's not just a good idea, it's the law!

rolliebollocks · Post by **rolliebollocks** » Feb 25, 2011 1:35

By the way rolliebollocks, I can disprove God. But no believer will accept it as truth, so there's no point in even presenting a case for it since it will fall on deaf ears... or should I say... blind eyes.

That's incendiary masturbation. You can't disprove God, or you would have done so already.

And you trying to understand my point is comparing apples to cruise missiles. Nice try but you missed the mark completely.

You didn't have a point, I gave you one.

o, ask yourself this question... do you believe in Zeus? Odin? Krishna? Mythras? Marilith? Asrael? Asmodeus? Mephistoles? Sat-Tan? Baalzebul? Neptune? What.... no? Oh. So then, if you don't believe in all these other gods and spiritual beings that others have fiercely believed in and fought and died for over throughout history, what makes yours so special? And specifically, what makes yours "correct"?

You're point was that since I don't believe that these other gods exist (which you have no way of knowing if I do or not, you're just assuming) then how can I believe in "my God" (assuming now that I have some personal God of mine). Or to extend the "logic", if these gods don't exist, then no god exists.

My analogy is valid, your argument isn't. Keep trying though, I double dog dare you.

Eponasoft · Post by **Eponasoft** » Feb 25, 2011 1:51

rolliebollocks wrote:That's incendiary masturbation. You can't disprove God, or you would have done so already.

I can disprove God all day long but no one will listen so why even bother? I've been doing it for years. I'm tired of making the case to ignorant people who won't listen anyways. So I stopped doing it. However, *no one* can PROVE God. And if you cannot prove it, why even bother deceiving yourself into believing in it? Self-deceit is the greatest of all evils.

rolliebollocks wrote:You didn't have a point, I gave you one.

AKA you missed the point so you put words in my mouth. Way to go.

rolliebollocks wrote:You're point was that since I don't believe that these other gods exist (which you have no way of knowing if I do or not, you're just assuming) then how can I believe in "my God" (assuming now that I have some personal God of mine). Or to extend the "logic", if these gods don't exist, then no god exists.

Don't represent the team if you don't play for them. And the word is "your", not "you're". "You are point" just sounds wrong.

rolliebollocks wrote:My analogy is valid, your argument isn't. Keep trying though, I double dog dare you.

Your analogy makes about as much sense as believing that the concept of freedom allows you to walk into a deli and urinate on the cheese.

vdecampo · Post by **vdecampo** » Feb 25, 2011 2:12

Guys, the tone is turning disturbingly nasty. I'd advise that nobody need comment on the validity or invalidity of anyone else's beliefs.

-Vince