FreeBASIC Frozen

For other topics related to the FreeBASIC project or its community.
marcov
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Postby marcov » Dec 16, 2008 21:44

counting_pine wrote:You may not like John, but have some respect for what he's been trying to accomplish.


I'm sorry, but it is hard to respect somebody who is not respoecting the effort that other forum users put into the threads he is hijacking for his own purposes.
Zippy
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Postby Zippy » Dec 16, 2008 23:26

marcov wrote:
counting_pine wrote:You may not like John, but have some respect for what he's been trying to accomplish.


I'm sorry, but it is hard to respect somebody who is not respoecting the effort that other forum users put into the threads he is hijacking for his own purposes.

At least John appears to have USED freeBASIC. You say that you don't.

How many times does PASCAL appears in your posts? Hmmm?
McLovin
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Postby McLovin » Dec 16, 2008 23:48

John Spikowski wrote:I going to remove FreeBASIC from the All Basic site on your recommendation and let the other members here thank you for your vigilance.

The sign of a true leader <roll eyes>. This just reaffirms my good judgement not to join that site. I witnessed the John/Donald/Zale PowerBASIC fiasco and the infantile behavior associated with it. FreeBASIC is better off. Sad, but true.
Eponasoft
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Postby Eponasoft » Dec 17, 2008 0:06

I see a lot of immaturity from both sides of the fence here, people. All of you need to settle down and chillax. Lest you all forget that it was this community's blatant promotion of FB on the network54 forums that turned them against this community? And now you're yelling at someone for doing the exact same thing? Where I come from, we call that "the pot calling the kettle black". Just settle down everyone, this kind of infighting accomplishes nothing.
counting_pine
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Postby counting_pine » Dec 17, 2008 0:11

Gods and Idols wrote:On topic, there has been a lot of talk going on at the IRC, (##freebasic on irc.freenode.net)

Among the things discussed are site redesign, language definitions and a potential rewrite of FB itself to make the code less "messy"
That's interesting to know, although I don't tend to use IRC... Has anything interesting come of it?
Mysoft
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Postby Mysoft » Dec 17, 2008 1:42

sincerelly... "they're" expecting you there at least once to share opinions... :P
Conexion
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Postby Conexion » Dec 17, 2008 3:26

counting_pine wrote:
Gods and Idols wrote:On topic, there has been a lot of talk going on at the IRC, (##freebasic on irc.freenode.net)

Among the things discussed are site redesign, language definitions and a potential rewrite of FB itself to make the code less "messy"
That's interesting to know, although I don't tend to use IRC... Has anything interesting come of it?


Well, thus far we have a few small things going on. We'd like to talk to someone about updating the website. We're doing some improvements to the wiki (Although I believe some of the things, like the header links, need to be updated. And we aren't able to do that).

Quadrescence is working on a base spec sheet on the FB language. Once the base is done, I believe he was going to make a post about it here for others to edit and make improvements on.

As far as discussion on cleaning up the compiler, there have been a few, but nothing seems to have come of it yet. When/if it is cleaned up, there has been discussions about documenting the source so that it is fully understandable to those who look at it.

Like Mysoft said, dropping by the IRC would be greatly appreciated. Discussing some of the ideas in more of a 'live' setting seems to get a little bit more done.

-
On a side note, I don't believe John was trying to hijack the thread. Regardless though, lets try to keep things on topic :) . Also, lets stop attacking each other. That doesn't do anybody any good.
marcov
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Postby marcov » Dec 17, 2008 9:48

Zippy wrote:
marcov wrote:
counting_pine wrote:You may not like John, but have some respect for what he's been trying to accomplish.


I'm sorry, but it is hard to respect somebody who is not respoecting the effort that other forum users put into the threads he is hijacking for his own purposes.

At least John appears to have USED freeBASIC. You say that you don't.


I never made a secret about that. I diddled a bit with FB on FreeBSD once, but that's about it.

How many times does PASCAL appears in your posts? Hmmm?


I've never made a secret about that (that I'm a minor FPC devel) too.
I originally came to FB forum because I was interested in the choices a starting non-gcc based compiler project would take. I missed that stage with FPC since I joined much later.

Recently I monitored QB64 (and thus nw54) also for a while. However while I liked the idea of a compiler based approach to emulated an interpreter, and I wish Galleon all the best, it took too much of my time, and I can't see much that I can learn from it.

Since the FB team is getting more secretive about development, I'm thinking stop monitoring FB too.

Note that if I drag Pascal into it, I do it out of comparison, and in context with the thread. I'm not convincing users to convert to FPC at all (as in, afaik I've never advised that in any of my posts), so what is exactly the problem with me using a different compiler ? Is it that different from people comparing with QB or VB when discussing possibly new language features?

So what is your point exactly? See my quote above:
- I invest time in this forum too. And while I might have fun with sb from time to time, I try to answer questions, specially in my relative field of expertise, Unix.
- I didn't troll FB on network54.

So why should I be silent about John's shameless plugging, which he has been asked to stop (or at least tone down) by several?

I don't have a problem with Allbasic, network54, other Basics or whatever. I just am fed up with Johns off-topic and totally non thread related advertisements. As said, I don't even mind that he would post links to answers on allbasic if they were really related to the thread.

However he only searches very superficially if he can somehow plug it, and seems to have less relevant FB knowledge than me ( and that is actually quite difficult on this forum, since I don't use it either).

The only specific topic he occasionally plugs is his (probably own?) pet project the gtk server, which he advertises in any gtk post. Which IMHO is next to useless for FB, since it can interface with GTK directly and more efficiently.

Eponasoft:
Letting this discussion try is effectively encouraging John to continue with his plugging. Something that is IMHO not wise.
John Spikowski
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Postby John Spikowski » Dec 17, 2008 10:36

What part of All Basic that's sole purpose is to promote Basic languages don't you get? I make nothing off All Basic and I fund it's hosting out of my own pocket. What possible issue can you have with that. I responded to a members comment that the FreeBASIC site was sparse and the members on All Basic were trying to get the word out with introduction information to drive traffic to this site.

Please show some level of comprehension or people are start thinking your a complete bright.

John
marcov
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Postby marcov » Dec 17, 2008 11:05

John Spikowski wrote:What part of All Basic that's sole purpose is to promote Basic languages don't you get? I make nothing off All Basic and I fund it's hosting out of my own pocket. What possible issue can you have with that. I responded to a members comment that the FreeBASIC site was sparse and the members on All Basic were trying to get the word out with introduction information to drive traffic to this site.


I don't care about allbasic at all. The point is about the posts, and the posts only. The site, who it is using, and the amount of charity work you do are not relevant.

The posts are a-specific and frankly just spam. That it might be useful for somebody is the standard excuse of spammers. Somebody might really need Viagra here too!

Of course, yours are related to Basic. Which is why I wouldn't mind them if they were really to the point and specific to the subject of the thread.

It is the dragging by the hairs, and them being just a general URL to the site that annoys me.

To be frank, I'm surprised this forum's moderators have allowed to continue that for so long. It is an open invitation for anybody that has two lines of FB content on his site to shamelessly promote his site in the same way.
John Spikowski
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Postby John Spikowski » Dec 17, 2008 11:16

Your hopeless. Just because I host the site it's somehow my thing? There about 70 members contributing to that site to help new comers with introduction information about the Basic languages represented there.

You have failed in every attempt to show how I'm benefiting from this.

Why don't you find someone else to abuse for a change? I'm tired of your whining. What have you done to help the FreeBASIC project?
Mysoft
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Postby Mysoft » Dec 17, 2008 11:17

asking for you both to stop destroying the meaning of the topic is too much? if you want to continue this war start a new topic "useless war between userx vs usery".

so please respect the point of the topic, plz =)
TheMG
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Postby TheMG » Dec 17, 2008 11:45

@John Spikowski:

No one is attacking AllBasic. We are saying that you (and you alone), are spamming.

What any of us is contributing to the FreeBASIC project is irrelavent as to whether your posts advertising AllBasic are spam.

You are benefitting from this because your site is becoming more popular. It is evident that it is your site because you are it's maintainer, hoster, it's admin, and it's largest poster. (Do not think that I think that benefitting from it becoming popular is wrong. What's wrong is how you are making it more popular).

Please stop accusing us of abusing you and whining. We are merely requesting that you stop spamming our community.
John Spikowski
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Postby John Spikowski » Dec 17, 2008 12:06

In an effort to get the word out, a few key members of the FreeBASIC team have been posting 'getting started', features and code projects on the All Basic site. If you have a FreeBASIC example your proud of or a tutorial to entice Basic programmers to give FreeBASIC a try, this is the place. All contributions are welcome and appreciated.


Please explain to me how the above is spam? What am I selling? Asking the members here to promote the project in a Basic community setting is Π$/- people off? I feel I'm the FreeBASIC whipping boy for all the frustrations of moving the project forward. Is trying to do something for the benefit of all now a shameless act?

Give me a break already !
jevans4949
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Postby jevans4949 » Dec 17, 2008 12:10

In the nature of things, compilers eventually reach a stage at which development slows, or comes to a standstill in terms of new features. Thereafter, things only get added if the community thinks of better ways of doing things, or there are external developments which make them desirable. For example, not much happened with PL/1 between the 1970's and 1990's, then people wanted to run it on Unix-type systems, so ztrings and IEEE format floating point was added.

Probably if you look at most other development products, what you will find is that new releases tend to have more bells and whistles added on to the IDE, rather than changes to the core product. If it's a commercial product, this is normally driven by the need to boost the cash flow.

Added to that, as any software project becomes bigger and more complicated, it becomes harder to bolt on new features - especially ones that weren't planned from the beginning.

From my experience in the commercial world, re-writing software tends to take a lot longer than people think; it's also not unusual for the re-developer to omit certain features which on implementation turn out to be essential. A container shipping company I once worked for developed a new system; when they tried to implement it they discovered there was no way to send an empty container back to China!

As I aired elsewhere, I believe the point has come where the devs should release something like the current 0.20 as FB 1.0. This would be a great boost for the community psychologically.

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