Albert's thread

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jj2007
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Albert's thread

Postby jj2007 » May 04, 2021 8:03

Good morning everybody!

The first thing I saw today was this:

Albert, you're banned permanently from the forum

Going back, I see that his last post was a reply to mine:
Re: Dodicat Zlib
by jj2007 » May 04, 2021 1:00
albert wrote:
My process is not math or logic..

I guess we can all confirm that.

by albert » May 04, 2021 2:11
@jj2007

I dug up one that i thought had some promise... It's a math formula... But i couldn't get it to decompress..


Therefore I feel a little bit entitled to raise this issue.

We all know that Albert has serious problems. So the question here is whether the FreeBasic forum is the right place to address these problems. His posts about compression are his attempt to deal with his obsession.

Of course, his posts are a nuisance.
Of course, the FreeBasic forum is not meant as a therapeutic institution.

OTOH:
Were his posts ever harmful enough to justify such a drastic step?
Where will Albert end up without his daily one or two posts, which, I suspect, were his only social activity?

Could there be a compromise? For example, he being allowed to post only in this thread? Then everybody who feels like could chime in and say hello, or pull a little bit his leg like I've done yesterday ("Albert, don't work on compression - read a book on compression instead").

For discussion, with apologies to the moderator who banned him. Decisions of moderators should not be discussed, I know, but this is a very special case. He doesn't want to be a troll, he is not aggressive, and he does no harm beyond polluting one thread.
angros47
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby angros47 » May 04, 2021 8:50

jj2007 wrote:We all know that Albert has serious problems. So the question here is whether the FreeBasic forum is the right place to address these problems.


It is not. This is a programming forum, not a therapy forum. If someone has psychiatric issues (and Albert claimed several times he has), this is not the place to address them.

His posts about compression are his attempt to deal with his obsession.


It is not an obsession, it is a delusion: from wikipedia "A delusion is a fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence"
We have provided him evidences for years, with no result. This is all we can do on this forum, and it has already been proven to be a total waste of time.

Of course, his posts are a nuisance.
Of course, the FreeBasic forum is not meant as a therapeutic institution.


Exactly: hence, he doesn't belong here. He has to go somewhere else.

Were his posts ever harmful enough to justify such a drastic step?

Yes, they were. Because we are not talking about one or two posts. We are talking about THOUSANDS posts, most of them were unrelated to FreeBasic, or promoted non working ideas. And sometimes even dangerous ideas, that required immediate deletion, like in this case: https://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=271598#p271598

Where will Albert end up without his daily one or two posts, which, I suspect, were his only social activity?

Could there be a compromise? For example, he being allowed to post only in this thread? Then everybody who feels like could chime in and say hello, or pull a little bit his leg like I've done yesterday ("Albert, don't work on compression - read a book on compression instead").


If you are so worried about him, why don't you set up another forum, or a discord server (it can be done in minutes, with no need to install anything), and invite him and Dodicat?
Or why don't you go on his Twitter page?
Albert has the right to express his ideas: just, not here, because his ideas don't belong here. He has no right to produce noise that disturbs other conversations, to spread misinformation to people who were trying to use this forum for the reason it has been created (finding answers to technical stuff related to FreeBasic), and to force moderators to do extra work to keep him under control.

For discussion, with apologies to the moderator who banned him. Decisions of moderators should not be discussed, I know, but this is a very special case. He doesn't want to be a troll, he is not aggressive, and he does no harm beyond polluting one thread.


Actually, this is why a permanent ban is necessary: he would keep being a troll, there is no hope for him to fix his behavior, the ban is the only way to stop him
Imagine a car crossing a red traffic light: if it is intentional, the driver saw the red light, but he was in haste and decided to ignore it, he can be punished with a fine. But what if it was not intentional? What if the driver had eyesight issues, and didn't see the red light? Does that justify them? Of course not, on the contrary, it will lead to his driving license to be permanently revoked, because he is a danger to himself and to others.
I agree that Albert's behavior was not intentional, but often non intentional behaviors require more drastic measures than intentional ones.
Last edited by angros47 on May 04, 2021 15:14, edited 1 time in total.
jj2007
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby jj2007 » May 04, 2021 9:00

angros47 wrote:dangerous ideas, that required immediate deletion, like in this case: https://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=271598#p271598
...
What if the driver had eyesight issues, and didn't see the red light? Does that justify them? Of course not, on the contrary, it will lead to his driving license to be permanently revoked, because he is a danger to himself and to others.
I understand and agree that a post where he gives medical advice should be deleted, although I doubt that anybody would follow his advice. The example with the blind driver is misleading, though: What is the maximum damage that Albert can do with his compression posts?

Anyway, I wrote "for discussion", so thank you for your contribution, angros - I am here to listen to arguments.
dodicat
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby dodicat » May 04, 2021 9:04

Four names in blue for a score of regulars.
You couldn't make that up in a daydream?
Funny, it is a fact of life, when nothing much is happening somebody dreams up a disaster.
For actual development of fb, it has some brilliant new contributors and ideas and something is happening.
I just wish I had had the talent to have helped a bit on that side .
And fxm with all his talents, reduced to a bouncer, I didn't think I would see the day.
No disrespect to Imortis, but he is the moderator proper, and moderator enough IMHO.
Thank you jj2007 for this thread.
If anybody is so completely obsessed with Albert's posts then they severely lack something, I am not sure what, I am not a psychiatrist (and I had to look that spelling up).
Most of the score of regulars, including myself, are not adversely affected as far as I can tell.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby deltarho[1859] » May 04, 2021 9:09

I believe if allowed to run this thread will be damaging to the forum.

Whether I agree with albert's banning or not is immaterial.

I hope that albert has a support network that he can lean on because he will need it in the coming weeks.

Moderators: Delete this thread now.
angros47
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby angros47 » May 04, 2021 10:23

jj2007 wrote:I understand and agree that a post where he gives medical advice should be deleted, although I doubt that anybody would follow his advice. The example with the blind driver is misleading, though: What is the maximum damage that Albert can do with his compression posts?


People who are regulars in this forum would not follow his advice. But his advice would be indexed by search engine, and people looking for real medical information might be driven to this forum, without knowing Albert and his issues

What harm he might be cause with his compression posts? He might mislead people who are seriously trying to learn. He also might drive competent people, who could give useful contributes, away from this forum. Sure, not the kind of harm a blind driver could do, and for that reason he received a lighter punishment: he hasn't been stopped from experimenting with compression, he has just been stopped from doing it HERE.

dodicat wrote:If anybody is so completely obsessed with Albert's posts then they severely lack something, I am not sure what, I am not a psychiatrist (and I had to look that


Dodicat, why do you always try to defend trolls? You did the same with the user scriptbasic years ago. You feed the trolls when they keep promising stuff they cannot deliver, encouraging them to continue

deltarho[1859] wrote:Moderators: Delete this thread now


I absolutely agree
dodicat
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby dodicat » May 04, 2021 10:59

Angros47
The guy, scriptbasic had two usernames I believe, he came back again (jon somebody or other, it was a while ago).
He didn't post anything offensive or incendiary, he was bullied and accused of posting non freebasic stuff and advocating gambas as a good Linux dialect.
One of the bullies came back on a year or two later and tried to persuade fb users to use javascript, and even threw in an example to tempt the unwary.
Albert is certainly no troll, he has been a member here for years.
I am sorely disappointed with these last few days here, what brought it all on?
Go ahead moderators, start banning more people and deleting threads to your heart's content.
I'll make my peace with you deltarho[], we had a bit of a stupid spit a while back, mostly my fault.
I like Yorkshire, Goole was a great seaman's town, it was buzzing with commerce until bad government killed our merchant fleet.
Selby also, and Hull was a great town, buzzing with red ensign ships, alas no more of these ships.
Such a difficult river, the Humber, for the unwary, full of treacherous shoals and bends and currents.
Good luck with your random generators.
paul doe
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby paul doe » May 04, 2021 11:52

Let me see if I got this straight: moderation was peremptorily asked for in a thread, because people is... speaking their minds? In 'Community Discussion'? In a civilized way?
dodicat wrote:...
Albert is certainly no troll, he has been a member here for years.
...

And that makes it any less of a troll? We (the moderation board) have a different view on what constitutes a 'troll', apparently.

I don't see any need to intervene, nor to lock/delete this thread. For now.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby deltarho[1859] » May 04, 2021 12:23

As mentioned, a few times I am a fan of Carl Jung's Typology. As a thinking type I can understand angros47's point of view. I can also understand jj2007 and dodicat's point of view. A feeling type will associate with jj2007 and dodicat but may struggle with angros47.

As time goes by this thread will cease to be about albert but will be a battle between thinking types and feeling types.

To my mind this thread's destiny will be a divisive one.

I repeat.

Moderators: Delete this thread now.

----------------------------

dodicat wrote:I'll make my peace with you deltarho[], we had a bit of a stupid spit a while back, mostly my fault.

Let us not dwell on whose fault it was - neither of us came out smelling of roses.

I don't like Scotland - I love it. I have had quite a few holidays in Scotland - camping at Loch Lomond and Pitlochry to mention two when I was a youngster. I also lived in Dundee for nearly a year when reading for my MSc at Dundee University. When at Dundee, I met a lovely girl from Forfar, but she would not join me on my return to England. No doubt she will vote for independence at the undoubted next referendum; assuming that she is still alive. It would break my heart to see Scotland leave the union - it would be like losing a sibling. The same goes for Wales. The same does not go for Northern Ireland - I don't think that should have happened. Great Britain is great because of Scotland and Wales. To my mind there would be nothing great about England on its own, but then I would say that being a Yorkshireman.

Hatchet buried. Image
jj2007
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby jj2007 » May 04, 2021 12:44

deltarho[1859] wrote:I hope that albert has a support network that he can lean on because he will need it in the coming weeks.
My best guess is that we are his support network, and have been for more than 14 years now.
Moderators: Delete this thread now.
Censorship, seriously? What is so scaring about Albert?

Re scriptbasic, it's a totally different case. He was aggressive and regularly insulted members.

P.S.: No worries, I'm not offended about being put into the non-thinking category. Actually, I find it really funny, thanks ;-)
deltarho[1859]
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby deltarho[1859] » May 04, 2021 12:59

@paul doe

Paul freedom of speech is all very well provided that it is not divisive. This thread will tend toward a divisive one and not in the forum's best interests.

Diplomacy is a healthy attribute for a moderator but being political is another one and sometimes that trumps diplomacy.

On this occasion the political path in my opinion is the better, so this thread should be deleted without further ado.

@jj2007

"Censorship, seriously? What is so scaring about Albert?"

Nothing. What is scaring is a divisive thread.

"No worries, I'm not offended about being put into the non-thinking category."

I put you, Jochen, in this context, into the feeling type category and not "into the non-thinking category." Carl Jung talks about thinking types and feeling types and not thinking types and non-thinking types. Thinking and feeling are two forms of making judgements. Total thinking types would ruin humanity. Total feeling types would ruin humanity. We have survived so far because both exist.

Jung's typology
paul doe
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby paul doe » May 04, 2021 13:46

deltarho[1859] wrote:...
Nothing. What is scaring is a divisive thread.

Funny you're so scared of 'divisions', given that you (correctly) acknowledge that both views are necessary for the world to go round:
...
Thinking and feeling are two forms of making judgements. Total thinking types would ruin humanity. Total feeling types would ruin humanity. We have survived so far because both exist.

'Freedom of speech' is, by its very nature, divisive. Members here are merely stating their points of view, and that is very useful from a moderation perspective, as it provides valuable insight into everyone's posture.

Having said that, please, kindly stop asking for moderation where there's no need.
MrSwiss
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby MrSwiss » May 04, 2021 13:53

paul doe wrote:Having said that, please, kindly stop asking for moderation where there's no need.
Thanks a lot paul doe, that was a long time overdue statement.
angros47
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby angros47 » May 04, 2021 14:28

jj2007 wrote:My best guess is that we are his support network, and have been for more than 14 years now.


No, we aren't. At least, it's not why I have joined this forum.
Again, I was not complaining about what albert said: I was complaining that he did it in the wrong place.
You want to keep supporting him? Feel free to do: but use a private channel, since you and dodicat seemed to be the only ones interested in that.

A simple google search of his name will give you his twitter profile, and his mail, in case you don't have them. You can still contact him and keep helping him, if you think you can. But why the people who are annoyed by his posts should have to see them?

dodicat wrote:The guy, scriptbasic had two usernames I believe, he came back again (jon somebody or other, it was a while ago).


His name was John Spikowski, and he was banned before for insulting any forum member who was not interested in his projects. The fact alone that he came back with a new username was enough to ban him again, but a second chance was given to him, and he repeated the same offending behaviors. Still, you kept defending him at the time. You should realize that sometimes there are people who don't deserve that

Also he never advocated gambas, but a project named C Basic that tried to use the C preprocessor as a full compiler.

dodicat wrote:Albert is certainly no troll, he has been a member here for years.
I am sorely disappointed with these last few days here, what brought it all on?


Are you kidding? It's not something of the last few days. The issue officially started at least one year ago: https://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=271929#p271929

Sure, I agree that what Albert did was just a minor offense, an annoyance. I understand that you may think he didn't deserve a ban. In fact, at the time, he wasn't banned: the only measure taken was to politely invite him to stop.
He kept doing so: he was punished in harmless way, by deleting his post: https://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=272295#p272295
He ignored that, and continued, until he got a temporary ban: https://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=273907#p273907
He kept getting more and more severe bans, so the inevitable conclusion was a permanent ban. All the less severe measures have been tried, and were ineffective
dodicat
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Re: Albert's thread

Postby dodicat » May 04, 2021 15:13

Yea.
It is a good read, jj2007:
https://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21939
The demise of another member, it has been a rare thing in all these years.
And marcov in the thick of it while he himself has not written a line of freebasic code.
You couldn't have made that up either, it is sublime.
Of course I sided with ScriptBasic.
Anyway, that's enough here for me.
Good luck Albert.

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