Flow Chart Programming

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bfuller
Posts: 323
Joined: Jun 02, 2007 12:35
Location: Sydney, Australia

Flow Chart Programming

Postby bfuller » Jul 14, 2017 1:42

I just found a nice little tool called Flowgorithm.

You can describe your program in flow chart form and it will produce the code as output. The output can be in many different formats including Qbasic. It will also produce C++ code or VBA or Java or Javascript or Python and so on. These options are on a pull down menu so comparing the different source code for the same flow chart is educational (for those of us who never really grasped C++ structure).

The flowcharting options are very simple and limited----but nevertheless it seems a good way to get a program up and running quickly. You can run your flowchart within Flowgorithm to check functionality before generating source output. Complexity can be added later by meddling in the generated source code.

See here http://www.flowgorithm.org/index.htm
srvaldez
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 21:54

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby srvaldez » Jul 14, 2017 2:00

somehow I can't wrap my head around those visual programming schemes, but this Idea has been around for some time
here's Peter http://www.gemtree.com/peter.htm and scratch https://scratch.mit.edu
I even paid for the registered version of Peter, it seemed interesting at the time.
bfuller
Posts: 323
Joined: Jun 02, 2007 12:35
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby bfuller » Jul 14, 2017 2:13

I only found it last night so don't know how good it is yet.

I have been trying to get some VBA code running in an Excel spreadsheet. VBA is not BASIC so I was struggling a bit. When I found this Flowgorithm tool I could draw up my concept then examine the code in its QBASIC source to see if I had what I wanted, then output in VBA source format for input to my Excel spreadsheet. I admit its a multi-step process and I think that I will eventually discard Flowgorithm once I get more familiar with VBA----but I am sure I will use it again when I try to do clever things with Java or Python (I am also playing with Raspberry Pi) or whatever. My problem is getting a simple program structure to compile or run------once I get over that hurdle then adding complexity is not so hard (at least for me).
BasicCoder2
Posts: 2642
Joined: Jan 01, 2009 7:03

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby BasicCoder2 » Jul 14, 2017 23:22

bfuller wrote:I just found a nice little tool called Flowgorithm.
See here http://www.flowgorithm.org/index.htm


TREND removed the file, setup.exe, after I tried to run it, giving this message.
This file contained malicious software, so it has been deleted for your protection.
?
bfuller
Posts: 323
Joined: Jun 02, 2007 12:35
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby bfuller » Jul 15, 2017 0:32

I have Norton 365 and it got past that OK. Loads and runs fine and I haven't had to pay any bitcoin ransom yet (fingers crossed!)
caseih
Posts: 919
Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby caseih » Jul 15, 2017 18:26

The zip file contains several things. A setup.exe installer, a Flowgorithm.msi installer, as well as the actual binary in a folder that you can run directly without installing. If setup.exe is flagged, try the Flowgorithm.msi file. Not sure why he bundled both installers in the zip file.

And if the author was inclined, he could release the source code under an appropriate license and that would allow an enterprising user to create a FB backend for it perhaps. But for now the author chooses to keep everything proprietary, which is his right of course.
BasicCoder2
Posts: 2642
Joined: Jan 01, 2009 7:03

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby BasicCoder2 » Jul 15, 2017 23:38

caseih wrote: Not sure why he bundled both installers in the zip file.

That did have me confused. Ran it on my window10 machine ok. Wasn't clear how to use it or what it was good for.
Although I found some flow charts useful as a visual understanding of the program layout, in practice I never used them to actually write or design a program. I only used them to summarize what I had already written and tested. The statements being so high level I don't see how they could be translated into any real programming language.
Maybe I will use the more expensive Norton next as the TREND is coming to its end. Not sure how useful they really are as I think windows10 has its own internet protection.
.
caseih
Posts: 919
Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby caseih » Jul 15, 2017 23:46

None of the antivirus and antimalware packages are all that great, honestly. I grew tired of the third party ones a long time ago. On my Windows 10 laptop I just use the built-in MS stuff. It's as good as any third-party AV.
MrSwiss
Posts: 1738
Joined: Jun 02, 2013 9:27
Location: Switzerland

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby MrSwiss » Jul 18, 2017 13:44

caseih wrote:It's as good as any third-party AV.
Sorry, but no agreement, here. (Actually: the first thing I disable, on any new system!)

The MS-stuff, regularly scores the worst, in comparison-tests:
got just: 70% of all "tested against", others score up to 98-99% ... (even free stuff)
caseih
Posts: 919
Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby caseih » Jul 18, 2017 22:19

Been a while since I looked into it (a couple of years), but the last article I read showed the MS built-in security software to be as good as any third-party out there. Certainly no worse. In fact the catch rate for most AV programs is actually pretty abysmal. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are useless, but they all, including MS's offering, leave much to be desired. My experience with the third-party AV programs over the years has been unimpressive, to say the least. They all seem to slow the machine down. We used to joke at work that Norton AV was itself a virus, and we're very nearly correct in saying that.
BasicCoder2
Posts: 2642
Joined: Jan 01, 2009 7:03

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby BasicCoder2 » Jul 18, 2017 23:01

How would you know if they were working?

Deliberately download or click on something to catch the virus, malware, trojan, spyware whatever and see if the software catches it?

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/03/you- ... p-anymore/

Googling the question I find it seems many are content with the Microsoft protection (must keep updating) and the protection given by EI, Chrome,FireFox.

One of the problems with a google answer is fake information. For example company X can provide a link pretending to be an independent source to say "No company X is not a scam or not a pyramid scheme while saying company Y is less than the best choice."
.
caseih
Posts: 919
Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby caseih » Jul 19, 2017 2:18

To be fair, all AV programs must be updated regularly, since 99% of the time, it's a pre-existing signature that flags a file with a virus or malware in it. To be clear, if it's a brand new piece of malware, most AV programs will not detect it. A few use heuristics to try to flag questionable programs, but in my experience this has significant drawbacks as well. Just look at the number of points where people complain that FB-generated executables are flagged as viruses. Antivirus programs seem to be a necessary evil in this day and age, I admit. But hopefully as we secure the OS's more and more, they will become less necessary. Although I'm not happy with the ultimate destination MS would have us all go: a locked down, sandbox only Windows 10 S, or Apple's iOS. Pay to play (but it's not that much to get a dev license, just suck it up!).

As for testing AV software, yes pretty much you have to just throw known infected files at it and see what happens. So testing isn't all that complete, though I was surprised how many known-bad files were not caught by popular antivirus programs a few years ago.
marcov
Posts: 2308
Joined: Jun 16, 2005 9:45
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Contact:

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby marcov » Jul 19, 2017 9:21

caseih wrote: My experience with the third-party AV programs over the years has been unimpressive, to say the least.


No need to qualify that with "third party". Windows Defender has the same problems, and can readily be included. That said Windows Defender does seem to generate less false positives than e.g. the free stuff. It seems less eager to prove itself to justify its cost, much like corporate versions of antiviruses do (or at least did, when I still worked in a company that used them).

About the usefulness; I've never run antivirusses, and the last virus I got was "I Love You", though I got a "Code Red" worm too when I was installing a new laptop on an open network (before it could be patched)

It helps if you don't scour the warez forums for free stuff, and avoid IE and outlook :)
caseih
Posts: 919
Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: Flow Chart Programming

Postby caseih » Jul 19, 2017 23:25

To be clear, I've had far fewer problems with Windows Defender, which I do not consider to be "third party."

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