Essentially, Leaving the Community.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
I'd probably revise the reason that I'm inactive. Now, it's more that I'm less interested in BASIC and more interested in general types of problem solving, particularly in business. I still don't know what to do as an outlet for art and expression. Not much time for that anymore :(
I'm doing well enough as a development consultant and am looking into "sales engineering" in the future. Within 5 - 10 years, I'd like to be an executive of some kind. Not sure I have what it takes, because also within 5 - 10 years, I'd also like to work less.
It makes my heart skip to think about it, but after nearly 5 years as a consultant, I'm almost out of debt. Once that happens, I can spend the next 3 - 5 years saving for a starter house. After that, if I'm not on the career path I want to be, I'll probably slow down a bit since my monthly expenses will (hopefully) be reduced enough for me to make a living working part-time.
Or I'll get sick or something crazy will happen and my whole plan will burn up in flames. Whatever God has planned for me, I guess.
I'm doing well enough as a development consultant and am looking into "sales engineering" in the future. Within 5 - 10 years, I'd like to be an executive of some kind. Not sure I have what it takes, because also within 5 - 10 years, I'd also like to work less.
It makes my heart skip to think about it, but after nearly 5 years as a consultant, I'm almost out of debt. Once that happens, I can spend the next 3 - 5 years saving for a starter house. After that, if I'm not on the career path I want to be, I'll probably slow down a bit since my monthly expenses will (hopefully) be reduced enough for me to make a living working part-time.
Or I'll get sick or something crazy will happen and my whole plan will burn up in flames. Whatever God has planned for me, I guess.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
I did find this cool website, though, which does a good job summarizing why I loved the internet and technology so much as a kid: http://www.cameronsworld.net/
Tbh I don't care that much about tech itself. I care more about people and doing interesting things. But if I could make something like Cameron's World again, it might be worth my time :)
But that's art. Wonderful art. Internet graffiti. Something no one seems to make anymore :(
Tbh I don't care that much about tech itself. I care more about people and doing interesting things. But if I could make something like Cameron's World again, it might be worth my time :)
But that's art. Wonderful art. Internet graffiti. Something no one seems to make anymore :(
Last edited by anonymous1337 on May 03, 2017 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
I am sure you will do well, whatever lies ahead for you!
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
anonymous1337 wrote:I did find this cool website, though, which does a good job summarizing why I loved the internet and technology so much as a kid: http://www.cameronsworld.net/
Tbh I don't care that much about tech itself. I care more about people and doing interesting things. But if I could make something like Cameron's World again, it might be worth my time :)
But that's art. Wonderful art. Internet graffiti. Something no one seems to make anymore :(
I call it eye candy...its like chocolate for the soul, its what has always attracted me to programming, to be able to make something that looks so cool.
even if its just a bunch of lines or shaded pastels or whatever.
I'm going to check out the website you posted a link to...glad to see your still kicking Prichard!!! live long and prosper!!
Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
WOW, I had to share link!anonymous1337 wrote:
I did find this cool website, though, which does a good job summarizing why I loved the internet and technology so much as a kid: http://www.cameronsworld.net/
Tbh I don't care that much about tech itself. I care more about people and doing interesting things. But if I could make something like Cameron's World again, it might be worth my time :)
But that's art. Wonderful art. Internet graffiti. Something no one seems to make anymore :(
I call it eye candy...its like chocolate for the soul, its what has always attracted me to programming, to be able to make something that looks so cool.
even if its just a bunch of lines or shaded pastels or whatever.
http://thejoyfulprogrammer.com/qb64/for ... 93#pid2920
People don't like this stuff? Dang, I must be really getting old.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
well at least we can still type even if we are old...LOL.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
thesanman112:
Programming for fun / as an art is something I wish I still could do. I think it's a combined experience of the creation and the process of creating. Just how painting isn't about the picture, but knowing how to use the paint, the paper, the brush and whatever other tools you have or use.
There are plenty of ways to create things. It's super cool to have the full capacity to manipulate and interact with your creations, though. Programming makes that easy.
I drift off so far, though. I wish there were two or more of me. One for each hobby. I probably couldn't convince the programmers, the writers, the painters, carpenters, or cave Pritchards to attend our 10-yearly meetings where we combine all of our experiences, though. I can hardly be pulled away from the computer when I get too deep into it.
But there comes a sinking feeling, deep in my chest, when I've been in an isolated hobby for too long... My brain and body have this realization that I am not some sort of plasma or vapor that can sit on a computer, look at math, or work in some other niche for as long as I'd like... No, I am ever-evolving, but also decaying, organic matter. I need to eat, drink, sleep, shower, clean, talk to friends and family, get perspective on the world. Live as a part of it, not away from it.
Programming for fun to me is more like a drug than anything else. I get high, I have withdrawal, ups and downs. It comes at a cost, and often it comes from the black market, where you have to sacrifice some of your soul in order to get what you asked for.
Programming for fun / as an art is something I wish I still could do. I think it's a combined experience of the creation and the process of creating. Just how painting isn't about the picture, but knowing how to use the paint, the paper, the brush and whatever other tools you have or use.
There are plenty of ways to create things. It's super cool to have the full capacity to manipulate and interact with your creations, though. Programming makes that easy.
I drift off so far, though. I wish there were two or more of me. One for each hobby. I probably couldn't convince the programmers, the writers, the painters, carpenters, or cave Pritchards to attend our 10-yearly meetings where we combine all of our experiences, though. I can hardly be pulled away from the computer when I get too deep into it.
But there comes a sinking feeling, deep in my chest, when I've been in an isolated hobby for too long... My brain and body have this realization that I am not some sort of plasma or vapor that can sit on a computer, look at math, or work in some other niche for as long as I'd like... No, I am ever-evolving, but also decaying, organic matter. I need to eat, drink, sleep, shower, clean, talk to friends and family, get perspective on the world. Live as a part of it, not away from it.
Programming for fun to me is more like a drug than anything else. I get high, I have withdrawal, ups and downs. It comes at a cost, and often it comes from the black market, where you have to sacrifice some of your soul in order to get what you asked for.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
Prichard, i know EXACTLY what your talking about...
I program for the art of it....i left it behind ten years ago.
My children are now playing alot of video games so i downloaded a studio design program that kids can use , its called roblox studio. I spent a few hours learning it last month and created a few worlds to show them...my 12 years old had already created some...and my 8 year old made/learned alot as well, for me, interest was lost because you cant really create with it, in the sence or way that i like to create. Ten years ago i made ALOT of open gl demos, just simple environments, ground and sky..flying birds, the sunset, it was a form of expression, excitement, and i remembered that feeling and last month i got PULLED back again...creating some backgrounds for a simple breakout demo i made in here, its an addiction, you are correct, my arms and shoulders burn like sunburn when i sit behind a computer, but its a release for me, addictive like smoking!!!!
I program for the art of it....i left it behind ten years ago.
My children are now playing alot of video games so i downloaded a studio design program that kids can use , its called roblox studio. I spent a few hours learning it last month and created a few worlds to show them...my 12 years old had already created some...and my 8 year old made/learned alot as well, for me, interest was lost because you cant really create with it, in the sence or way that i like to create. Ten years ago i made ALOT of open gl demos, just simple environments, ground and sky..flying birds, the sunset, it was a form of expression, excitement, and i remembered that feeling and last month i got PULLED back again...creating some backgrounds for a simple breakout demo i made in here, its an addiction, you are correct, my arms and shoulders burn like sunburn when i sit behind a computer, but its a release for me, addictive like smoking!!!!
Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
Thanks for writing that anonymous1337 (and thesanman112), it resonates with me too. Programming for me is a hobby which has definitely become an addiction. I have to wonder whether I'm deluding myself, telling myself that I'm doing something productive and learning (which is true), while largely I'm just amusing myself. Maybe I should try to shift projects to contributing to software that has a lot of impact so that at least I'm doing more good ... but then I'll have even more reason to never go outside! If AI ever does away with the need/expectation to hold a job, will spending your entire life programming personal projects be a reasonable use of it, or a waste? Maybe it's better not to specialise too much.
Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
TeeEmCee et al
The determination of anything you do as a 'waste' or 'productive' use of your time can only be made by you - as it is a personal subjective judgement. If you are enjoying it, whether or not it contributes directly to some 'greater good', then you are still being 'productive' and so indirectly, increasing the happiness of the greater good (since you are part of that group as well!)
I realize my programming efforts do very little to effect the lives of others, but I consider it a much better 'exercise' than watching TV or a movie... it stretches my imagination as well as gets my logical thought processes a bit of a workout. At my age I think these things are helpful in both keeping me alert... and sane!
The determination of anything you do as a 'waste' or 'productive' use of your time can only be made by you - as it is a personal subjective judgement. If you are enjoying it, whether or not it contributes directly to some 'greater good', then you are still being 'productive' and so indirectly, increasing the happiness of the greater good (since you are part of that group as well!)
I realize my programming efforts do very little to effect the lives of others, but I consider it a much better 'exercise' than watching TV or a movie... it stretches my imagination as well as gets my logical thought processes a bit of a workout. At my age I think these things are helpful in both keeping me alert... and sane!
Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
I'm reaching the point (I'm still in my 20's) where my pursuit of happiness (ie. programming) is making me unhappy, because I worry about how I might better spend my time/use my skills while I'm doing this.
Of course, you are right that only I can make that determination, and I just did. I just answered my own question. Thanks.
Of course, you are right that only I can make that determination, and I just did. I just answered my own question. Thanks.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
Providing it doesn't interfere with earning a living or family responsibilities then I see no issue with coding for fun. Better I would say than smoking, drinking, gambling and shooting up with ice.
I see no difference between solving programming puzzles and other sorts of puzzle games people play on their mobile phones when bored. Yes a social pass time is probably a better choice such as a game of cards or a game of tennis but what if you find both boring? What if they don't give you any sense of achievement? I don't see getting a ball in a hoop as any more of a useful thing to do than getting a sprite to find its way in a computer game. Both equally pointless I would say. It is just a matter of which one you find the most satisfying achievement although if you want respect from the general population than go for the ball in the hoop :)
A pass time does become a problem if it interferes with your job, family or a social life no matter what that pass time is. Better to have a pass time that involves other people in your life.
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I see no difference between solving programming puzzles and other sorts of puzzle games people play on their mobile phones when bored. Yes a social pass time is probably a better choice such as a game of cards or a game of tennis but what if you find both boring? What if they don't give you any sense of achievement? I don't see getting a ball in a hoop as any more of a useful thing to do than getting a sprite to find its way in a computer game. Both equally pointless I would say. It is just a matter of which one you find the most satisfying achievement although if you want respect from the general population than go for the ball in the hoop :)
A pass time does become a problem if it interferes with your job, family or a social life no matter what that pass time is. Better to have a pass time that involves other people in your life.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
TeeEmCee... I have the benefit of having become a professional developer after all of the time I spent goofing around in FreeBASIC.TeeEmCee wrote:I'm reaching the point (I'm still in my 20's) where my pursuit of happiness (ie. programming) is making me unhappy, because I worry about how I might better spend my time/use my skills while I'm doing this.
Of course, you are right that only I can make that determination, and I just did. I just answered my own question. Thanks.
I'd say the real problem isn't that programming itself as a hobby is a waste, it's that it's hard. Developing games, doing extensive research projects, building utilities, contributing to communities, etc. takes a whole lot of effort... I don't want to be married to my computer. I want to enjoy it like anything else.
Unlike watching TV, doing crossword puzzles, whatever... Programming things I'm actually interested in now takes so much effort.
I can still be interested in TV shows and other things without feeling like I have to become a writer. TV still surprises me. If I stop finding shows I like, I will probably have become enough of a critic to be able to write decent materials at that point.
I'm well beyond whatever I was interested in crossword puzzles. And I don't mean that to offend anyone. Some people end up loving things like crossword puzzles so much, that they end up getting degrees in mathematics just to explore puzzles further in their spare time. That's not me, however.
I liked programming so much, I made it into a career. I help businesses by writing code. It's pretty phenomenal, but it satisfies a different type of curiosity... and I'm getting to the point now, again, where I'd rather work in sales, management, or business, because that's more to the point of the problems I'm becoming interested in.
I thought I wanted to make games. Then I found out how much work games are even when you have all of the right tools and vision. Almost all of my drawings, all of my doodles, have always been game ideas. I also have learned a lot more about game design, psychology, puzzles, etc. Not anything rigorous, but enough to know that a lot of ideas I had were not actually game ideas, but closer to interactive movies, which are still hard to produce.
As a result, I've noticed I don't draw anymore. I don't write music anymore. I don't really do anything creative because the IDEA of making games, not the actual process of doing so, was responsible for 99% of my creativity in the past.
There's sometimes a difference between what we hope and imagine the world is, versus what it actually is.
This is a difficult place to be in. It's when reality comes and punches you in the face. It's especially apparent when you're working for a living, and I have a family now as well.
Oh, so I can't spend 12 hours a day in front of a computer, after all? Weird. Yeah, it's bad for my physical health, my emotional health, my relationships, everything, really.
I'll be honest... this all gives me a lot of existential dread. I really enjoyed programming, and as I said in an earlier post, I wish I could do it for fun again. At the same time, however, I feel as though I was either lied to or lied to myself for a long time about what the world really was. I almost wish at this point that I had been more social, more athletic, more business savvy, more everything else that fits in with what reality actually is, rather than what I wanted it to be.
Because when it comes down to the level of passion I'm used to having... it really consumes you. It takes over your life. It is incredibly, incredibly difficult to have a real passion on top of your main job. I know a few people who seem able to do it, but it is not easy at all. Daddy can't work 6 - 10 hours a day, spend another 8 on a passion, and then at least 2 hours of quality time with the baby.
You can certainly spend less time on things than that, but I am 10 chapters into a 90+ chapter book that has incredibly small chapters. This is a book I've been forcing myself to read after work. It's teaching me a lot of new things. It's a difficult read because of that, so it moves a lot more slowly.
Exercise I've been able to fit in, because for now, I keep it light.
Time to work, time to learn, time to recover... Time is by far the most expensive currency we as humans have. And that's what makes things so damned difficult. Time spent doing one thing is time not spent doing something else I probably really should be doing.
I plan to change all of this within the next 5 - 10 years, but golly, has reality been kicking my ass since I originally created this thread. Homelessness, nearly 3 years in a transitional program that I hated, failing out of my first two jobs completely, gambling addiction, starting a family, breaking off from my daughter's mom, finally getting my $%#@ together. So focused on that, I don't know how to be myself completely anymore, even though I appreciate the growth. It's tough. I also think it's necessary.
Sorry for the rant. I just hope it resonates with you in some way.
Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
Thank you again, for writing that. I found some valuable life advice in it.
I know what you mean about existential dread. Realising you don't have time for your hobbies is more or less the same as realising you're mortal; that you have limited time on Earth and its quality goes down.
Time. I need to learn to make better use of it.
Wow, you've been through difficult things. Although I've never been a regular here so don't really remember you, I sincerely hope that things keep improving for you.
Thanks, it makes me see that I need to take less of my own life for granted. I realise now that it is easy to be fooled into thinking that your life is in a stable and sustainable state, when in fact it isn't. And hence, easy to fail to plan. Often forces build up over time, hidden or not, until there is a step-change in your life - one day, you default on your mortgage, you graduate, you have a child, you move house, you have a heart attack.
I know what you mean about existential dread. Realising you don't have time for your hobbies is more or less the same as realising you're mortal; that you have limited time on Earth and its quality goes down.
Time. I need to learn to make better use of it.
Wow, you've been through difficult things. Although I've never been a regular here so don't really remember you, I sincerely hope that things keep improving for you.
Thanks, it makes me see that I need to take less of my own life for granted. I realise now that it is easy to be fooled into thinking that your life is in a stable and sustainable state, when in fact it isn't. And hence, easy to fail to plan. Often forces build up over time, hidden or not, until there is a step-change in your life - one day, you default on your mortgage, you graduate, you have a child, you move house, you have a heart attack.
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Re: Essentially, Leaving the Community.
The "why more is less" debate seems perfectly fittiing here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ELAkV2fC-I
(Barry Schwartz - "The Tyranny of Freedom" you know. I think everyone has seen this video, it was very very popular in its time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ELAkV2fC-I
(Barry Schwartz - "The Tyranny of Freedom" you know. I think everyone has seen this video, it was very very popular in its time)